Having had both Toika and Varpa looms and as both manufacturers are similar I thought it might be interesting to open a group.  There are many resources out there for Glimakra looms but not much in the way of TOIKA or Varpa.  Varpappu looms are not longer available in the USA unless purchased used, I am not sure if the company still exists overseas.  Toika and Varpa looms share the characteristics of being made from light birch which has a clear varnish coat,  this helps maintain the blonde look of the wood.  The wood feels more dense and is much heavier than the pine of the Glimakra.  The Toika/Varpa looms also use some metal hardware in addition to using peg construction.  The Toika/Varpa looms are more compact than the Glimakra yet provide the same generous weave widths.  That is not to say any of these traits make it more or less of a loom than the Glimakra, they are just different.

TOIKA now manufactures a computerized version of their Lisa and Eeva looms which allows computer control of 16 or 24 harness.  This computer unit can be added to an existing TOIKA loom and may be added to other Swedish style looms with some minor modification.

WEBS (yarn.com) and the owners the Elkins are most helpful if you wish to obtain more information regarding Toika looms and equipment.  The Mannings of PA also sell TOIKA.  Toika manufactures a variety of weaving equipment and supplemental accessories.  I myself own some of their shuttles and temples, the parts of these temples are interchangeable for multiple weave widths which I find usefull.  The loom I currently own is the 120cm Eeva, overhead beater, 8 shafts, 10 treadles, worm gear warp advance,  It not only is aesthetically pleasing but heavy, durable and comfortable to use.  

Comments

Greta G

You are welcome, Shawn

 

If you look at my few project I did last year, they are all done on 4 shafts counterbalance.

 

Just go for it,

ShawnC

Will do. Thanks! Your work is gorgeous. Hard to believe you were away from weaving so long. I'm also just getting back to it.

 

Shawn

ShawnC

The Berga Sevonia is warped! Finally. Sticky tow linen full width in the winter may not have been the best choice for a first project on a new loom, but it may weave off ok. The loom does have a lovely shed and Greta, you're right, no troubles with the shaft width.

ShawnC

A Finlandia was posted recently. Looks to be a great deal: http://weavolution.com/forum/sale-or-trade/varpapuu-finlandia-countermarch-loom-wi-30720

ShawnC

Well, the linen warp from hell I finally cut off the loom. I think either, 1) the linen had been stored too long, since I had been hauling it around for 15 years, or 2) it simply wasn't good warp material to being with (though I swear I used it before as warp, my memory might be fooling me). So, to give the Berga another chance to shine, I warped in 16/2 cotton at 40 epi for a nice daldrall table cloth from Vav in a 2001 issue on drall. The picture of the pattern looked like a four leaf clover. They used 16/1 linen as ground and pattern in contrasting colors. The only linen I had on hand, was the tow linen that gave me so much trouble as warp. It is about twice as heavy (it just says number 10) and the pattern ended up elongating and now looks more like butterflies. A fun mistake along with one extra pattern repeat on the bottom. After I fool around with this linen for a bit, I'll use some more 16/2 cotton and imagine I'll get the pattern that more closely represents the one in the magazine. The Berga is very nice to weave on. Counterbalance is all right with me so far!

gerdah

I am setting up my preowned Toika Liisa, and as I have never used a countermarch loom before, I am totally confused. I do not understand the use of 2 sets of lamms, upper and lower, my counterbalance loom has only 2 lamms for 4 shafts. And Toika kindly emailed me a diagram for the tie-up which shows cords going to the lower lamms which would, if tied, go through the warp. Is this so? Does that mean I need to beam and thread the warp before tying up the treadles and lamms? How I wish I had a weaving guild closeby... Please be kind and answer my questions even if they are basic and no doubt obvious to you.

 

Dawn McCarthy

Hi Gerdah - it is confusing initially!  Countermarch set up is best done with a warp on the loom and with the shafts temporarily hanging (just to get the warp established before adjusting shafts and cords) - just start with warp threads through the mid/lower eye of the heddle.  There are some free resources for tying up this type of loom.  If you visit Joanne Hall's Glimakra USA page - there are some diagrams and resources there.  Joanne's book Tying Up The Countermarch Loom is a good resource.  This will really help understand the purpose of upper and lower lams.

The Toika looms are slightly differently proportioned from Glimakra and Oxaback but the method is the same, may just require a slight tweek of the tie up when ready.  Your botom shed is key, it needs to be nice and level, don't fuss too much with the upper shed.  Also the shed doesn't need to be as wide as you get with your counterbalance - otherwise your treadles will be too high and tight, just enough shed for the shuttle.  Yell back if you need more help once you have been to Joanne's sight.  Another great book is The Big Book Of Weaving by Laila Lundell ($35 USA) but will be a wonderful resource for years!  There are lots of countermarch owners here to help!

Dawn

Bewove.com

pdiviney (not verified)

I am putting on my first warp on my new Eeva Loom.  I have a 12 harness loom and the gate puts a bind on the outward treadles even when not locked. Do you have any suggestions?  I'm still in the process of tieing up the first warp.  The loom is really beautiful and sturdy.  I'm looking forward to actually weaving on it.

pdiviney (not verified)

I am putting on my first warp on my new Eeva Loom.  I have a 12 harness loom and the gate puts a bind on the outward treadles even when not locked. Do you have any suggestions?  I'm still in the process of tieing up the first warp.  The loom is really beautiful and sturdy.  I'm looking forward to actually weaving on it.

Dawn McCarthy

pdiviney, can you show a photo?  At what stage of dressing the looms are you and do you have the locking pins in the upper jacks?

Dawn

pdiviney (not verified)

My loom has 9 possible positions for the lamms.  What is the most common setting?  Why 9 positions?

pdiviney (not verified)

I do have the locking pins in.  I have removed the gate until the tieup is complete.  My other concern is the 9 possible positions for the lamms.

 

Dawn McCarthy

I'm not sure what you mean by 9 positions?  My Toika is in the crawl space right now - usually there are multiple positions for both sets of lams - a general rule of thumb (good place to start) is have all horizontal pieces equi-distant.  So the distance from top shaft bar to bottom (determined by heddle size) should be equal to distance between bottom shaft bar and upper lam, then the same distance from upper to lower lams.  Try not to make the set up too tight (including treadle ties) as this may cause the lams to tangle when treadling.  Hope this helps!  

Dawn

pdiviney (not verified)

Thanks for the comments regarding the positions.  I think that will verify what I have been doing.  Here are the pictures of the gate and please note how it is binding both outside treadles.  I have tried using the spacers (shown in foreground of back view) but they seem to make the situation worse.

Toika Gate-front view

Back gate, spacers not used in foreground

Dawn McCarthy

It may seem counter intuitive but the treadles do better with wiggle room.  Try without the gate (I personally never needed one) No spacers necessary at the back.  This may make the process a little more fluid.

Dawn

Joanne Hall

I agree with Dawn.  Last winter I did a program on countermarch at a shop where there was a Toika loom with a gate (among other cm looms).  One problem is that with the gate, you have to tie the treadles up higher, as they don't go down as far when the gate is there.  So, without the gate, you don't have to tie the treadles up as high and the treadling will be more comfortable.  You won't have to lift your foot up as high to put it onto the next treadle.

The gate is primarily for when you are weaving tapestry or laid in techniques which require you to hold the shed open a long time and reach to the side of the warp.  On a very wide loom, it is sometimes impossible to hold the treadle down and reach to the side of the warp.

Joanne

Karen_R (not verified)

I have just joined this group and am very excited to find you. I bought a 60" Liisa used a couple of years ago. I just learned after talking to the weaving expert at WEBS that it is probably 30 years old. I was amazed because it is solid and beautiful. I have been slow to understand it (tied up wrong for an entire project). The only instructions I have been able to find are in Finnish. The seller said it was 10 harness (I think it can be expanded to 12) but I have been working on just 4 to learn the loom. Now I want to use all 10 harnesses. I have the shafts but only have lamms for an 8 harness loom. Does anyone know whether the lamms on a newer Toika would be compatible so that maybe I could get the others from a Toika dealer?

A second question is about the hanging beater. The loom  came with a swing beater but the seller included a hanging beater kit. It is really just the frame for the reed. Does anyone know if old Liisa looms can be fitted with a hanging beater?

 

Thanks in advance for any advise you have.

hopeful weaver

Sending out an SOS about my 16 shaft Eeva computerised Toika Loom. I had been weaving in the morning without issue, then Eeva decided that she was only going to lift shafts 1234. I immediately turned off the loom and the computer and left it for 30 minutes. When I went back, I turned everything back on, went back to the draft that I had been following, and now all Eeva will do is cycle through all her shafts - from 16 to 1, then all odds, then all evens. According to the computer programme she is cycling through the pattern, but she isn't really. Does anyone have any suggestions please. Many thanks

Gone

I just acquired a Toika Liisa 8/10. This is my first CM loom and it's a little intimidating, so I will be sponging information for a while until I get the system under my belt. Sara and Joanne, you are both a wealth of information. Thank you both for all your input.

 

 

Joanne Hall

Tom, I hope the assembly is going well. Do let us know when you get it warped.  You probably already know it would not be a good idea to make a warp that is the full width of the loom for your first project.  You will need to learn how to get comfortable with each process of the warping, so a narrower warp is best for you first one.

Keep in touch.  And, photos are nice.

Joanne

Gone

Thanks Joanne,

Assembly is complete. It's a snap to set up. Now it's understanding the lamms and tieup.

Don't worry about the width. I'll do a small 100-125, maybe 12 inches wide to get started.  And I'm only starting with 4 harnesses. I haven't a clue as to what I'm doing but it will be a fun experience. I'm looking forward to a lot of light bulbs going on.

This will probably take me several weeks as I'm back and forth with work and club functions.

The loom has all string heddles on it and a huge bag of additionals. I'll stick with what's on the loom for now to get the hang of it. But I do have the Lundell book and I'll be poring over that too. And I'll be checking in here as well.

ETA:  I just ordered your book also Joanne. I'll learn this one way or another!

 

 

attic.emily

A Finlandia followed me home after a Weavers Guild meeting. In three heavy boxes. However, there were no pegs or cords or heddles. Can anyone give me the dimensions for the pegs? I think I found the lengths of the cords and heddles on another thread on this site. Thanks!

attic.emily

Well. I went through the boxes and I have no jacks or metal parts for my recent acquisition (see my post above). The previous owner had this loom in storage for many years and cannot find another box of parts. I can make parts if I have the correct dimensions. Can anyone give me the dimensions including the hole placements for the horizontal jacks? I would think these need to be accurate so the shafts move the correct distance. I have received no reply to my first post. Perhaps this group is no longet active? 

weavingintampa (not verified)

I'm so glad I have found this group. I have been wanting to add a counter march loom to my ever growing collection. These are the 3 I have zeroed in on. There really is not much info out there comparing them to each other or pros and cons to each type. Some of the things I would love to know before committing to a purchase are things like ease of dressing, tie up etc.

I live in Tampa Fl where we don't even have a yarn store anymore let alone weaving supplies. I have an opportunity to go to Webs on oc and have seen the Toika there. Any input will be very gratefully received. 

Ps. I was thinking of a 47-50" more or less. 8+ shafts. Do any of them allow you to add later?

Joanne Hall

You need to look at cm looms the same way you look at other looms.  So, here is a short list:

Loom depth more than weaving width or at least as much.

Decide if you want a hanging beater (my choice) or a beater attached at the floor.  The wider the loom the nicer it is to have it hanging, as it gets heavier as it gets wider.  Hanging beaters are adjustable so that you always beat square.

Treadles attached from the back are standard for large countermarch looms.

On a large loom, it is hard to reach the treadle tie up from the outside of the loom frame, so an easy way to get inside the loom to tie up the treadles is very helpful.  If you have to climb over the side of the loom, you won't be able to weave the full weaving width.

Large diameter warp and cloth beams give you a more even tension on long warps.

Large looms often have a knee beam to keep the woven cloth off your knees.

Large beams are usually laminated so that they will not warp over time.

The shafts need to hang right behind the beater for the best shed.

A loom that will come apart and fit into a car has advantages.

A loom with the option to add attachments is an asset:  second warp beam, sectional beam, fly shuttle, raddle, loom extension drawloom, etc.

And for a countermarch loom, measure the breast beam height:  you need height for two sets of lamms, so for a wide loom, it needs to be at least 34 inches, a little more is better.

A new countermarch loom often comes with things you need and instructions, but some come with a bench, warp sticks, a reed of your choice, plenty of heddles and tie-up cord, shuttle, etc.  Consider this when you look at the cost.

Joanne

scottishlamb

I've found this for sale for $600, but I can't find any info of there being a 22" Liisa ever made as it's listed.  Can anyone give me more info?

Thank you,

Jean

Joanne Hall

They made a 60cm and an 80cm.  But in the 70s they made a 70cm loom.

Joanne

scottishlamb

Thanks, Joanne.  I am buying it.  Will travel to Ohio to see family in the next couple of months and the seller will hold on to it for me if my family can't go get it beforehand.  

She measured the beams and they are 24" , so I bet it's the 60cm one.  Do you know what year they stopped making those?

scottishlamb

Thanks, Joanne.  I am buying it.  Will travel to Ohio to see family in the next couple of months and the seller will hold on to it for me if my family can't go get it beforehand.  

She measured the beams and they are 24" , so I bet it's the 60cm one.  Do you know what year they stopped making those?

Joanne Hall

I have some Toika catalogs, but they don't have dates.  And, back in the 70s, they did not have very many different models.  It was later that they expanded and gave them names.  Plus, my oldest catalog is mostly in Finnish.

Joanne

scottishlamb

I wrote to them and Mona said they made the 60cm Liisa around 1990.

Dawn McCarthy

Can anyone confirm if the side frames on the Berga can come apart?  I see bolts and what looks like barrel nuts (same as the Varpa side frame comes apart) I am picking a loom up and if it comes apart I do not need to rent a truck.

Dawn

indigomoonbc

How do I see the most recent messages when I log into this (or any other) group?  The first ones that come up are from years ago and it seems odd the newest aren't on my screen. Sorry for such a basic question but I'm just starting to use weavolution (or going to try!) thanks

 

indigomoonbc

How do I see the most recent messages when I log into this (or any other) group?  The first ones that come up are from years ago and it seems odd the newest aren't on my screen. Sorry for such a basic question but I'm just starting to use weavolution (or going to try!) thanks

 

scottishlamb

So I picked up the little 60cm Liisa last week and have spent this week pampering her and setting her up.  Started to weave this morning.  I'm not new to CM, I have a Glimakra Standard.  My shed is decent (wish it was a little larger, but it's good), but I'm having a dickens of a time with tension.  I also realized pretty quickly that I couldn't advance the warp much more than halfway between the shafts and front beam because the bottom of the beater rubs on the apron underneath.  Is that correct?!  Seems crazy.  If I raise the beater any more, the d will be too high to the heddles.  The warp is coming through the center of the heddles and the warp is perfectly level between front and back beams.  I have to say I really am not fond of the brake system.  Two pawls for each ratchet is kind of a bear.  I can't seem to find a sweet spot for tension, it's either too loose or too tight and my selvedges are showing it.  There are so many options on this loom for treadle heights, lamm height (and my lamms are knocking together.  I've tried raising and lowering them, still knocking).

Any advice would be appreciated.   From the back:  I did have the texsolv coming from the first four holes in the treadles, but it felt like everything was smooshed forward, so I moved them back so that the jacks were in the center of the countermarch.  Treadles 1 and 6 aren't being used.  I'm using the top of the lamm tie up method like I have on my Glimakra.Toika Liisa from the back

 

scottishlamb

This is what I've woven on it so far... Finnish Twill.  :-) Seemed only fitting:

Finnish Twill on the Finnish Loom

katv

Dear Weavingteam,

I very much hope that someone  could help me with my question. I  buy old computer looms from Varpapuu, it will come with old computer (windows 95 and weave point 3). Does someone ahs experience with old computer looms, is it possible to connect the looms with new computer?

Does new weave point 8 works as well on old computer looms?

Thank you so much in advance! If someone could help me further, it would be lots of help.

Kind regards,

Kat

sandra.eberhar…

I have been able to use a modern Windows 7 laptop with a 1985 AVL.  It required a USB adptor and a new cable.  I suggest you contact Varpappu to see if that can be done.  I used Weavepoint 7, and drivers for the old Compudobby.  The newer versions of software have a lot more features than the older ones, but make sure it will run your loom.  I know that Weavepoint 8 will run AVL, Louet, and Arm, not sure about Varpappu.

georgeandgracie

Having just joined this group, I notice that the posts are now very old. Is this group no longer active?

Caladenia

I have bought a second hand Varpapuu Savonia countermarche 8 shaft floor loom.  It looks beautiful and is a commanding presence in my studio, but I simply cannot figure out how to get it to work!  I was pleased with myself for putting it all together after bring it home in pieces, but that's only the beginning!  There seems to be very little online (but maybe I'm not looking in the right places).  I wonder if anyone can suggest any resources / youtubes, etc.  The Big Book of Weaving by Laila Lundell was helpful, but I'm now at the stage where I can't see or even feel to tie-up all the pedals.  I can't believe I have to feel around underneath the pedals - it was hard enough sitting on them to set up the lams.  Maybe it's not a machine for an aging body!

Caladenia

I seem to be having problems with code being inserted into my text, and my photo does not seem to loading.  I will try again later.  Perhaps it has already worked.

sandra.eberhar…

If you're not familiar with CM looms, Joanne Hall's book on tying up a CM loom can be very helpfull.  Also, a device called a 20+ moves the tieup from the treadles and lamms to the back of the loom.  I don't believe that the original maker is in business anymore, but you can find photos of DIY versions.  You can also find other options to make tying up easier.  Some make loops in the lamm cords to slip around the treadles.

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