hello everyone,

i'm a new weaver, and am really interested in navajo weaving (along with tapestry weaving). I want to create designs...I'm drawn to the native designs, but I'm also interested in doing some designs that stray a bit from the navajo weavings and would be more tapestry style i'm guessing.

does anyone have any suggestions as to a great loom to get. i want to work medium size...(not much bigger than 50" i'm thinking) I don't care for doing small work...and don't like smaller looms...feels limiting to me i guess, i'd rather get bigger than what i intend to work than smaller...if that makes sense.

i have the space to set something up, so space is not an issue. 

also what other resources does anyone have to share...i've read a lot about some of the favorite books...is there a "must get to start" book? and what other tools would i need besides a beater..shuttle? bobbins? and of course wonderful yarn.

thank you for any advice!

 

Comments

Thu, 11/05/2009 - 13:50

Su Butler

Noel Bennett and Tiana Bighorse's "Working with the Wool" is an excellent resource.  I think what used to be presented in two separate books (Working With The Wool and Designing With The Wool) are now available in one. 

You can build a Navajo loom pretty easily.  There are instructions in the Bennett/Bighorse book.

Look at the Weaving Southwest website as well....they sell Navajo looms, supplies etc....... http://www.weavingsouthwest.com/

Navajo weaving is such a joy......the slow pace, the intimate interaction between weaver and loom.....enjoy!

Su

 

 

Mon, 11/09/2009 - 05:52

sgt_majorette (not verified)

The combination book is called Navajo Weaving Way: The Path from Fleece to Rug and yeah, you should get it. Weaving the Navajo Way by Caroline Spurgeon is another good one, maybe a bit more instructional.

Either of these books will tell you what you need to get started and where to get it.

There's a supplier called Crazy Woman Navajo Weaving Supplies whom I like for the name alone - but she is good, communicates and ships quickly.

You'll probably like to read about Navajo weavers: they have a similar attitude to yours about the designs. They like and respect the traditional patterns, but it's about the weaver's artistry and also marketability. Many of the designs considered "traditional" were suggested or commissioned by traders. If some of them make you think of Oriental carpets, it's because the traders showed the pricey Persians to the weavers, who thought, "Huh. That much? Heck, I can do that!"

Tue, 11/10/2009 - 19:08

francorios (not verified)

I have the Navajo Weaving Way book and it is very helpful.  Between that book and the pictures at Taos Trading Post that should give you the basics.

Awesome pictorial of Navajo Loom Weaving
http://www.taostradingpost.com/weaving/loom.html

The one process I wish they would show more clearly is how to use a twined cord edge to create a finished selvedge. I used the process on backstrap loom projects too and I blogged it here.

http://francosfiberadventure.blogspot.com/2009/09/twining-edge-on-backstrap-loom.html

 

Another book I have is "Weaver of Worlds: from Navajo apprenticeship to sacred geometry and dreams" by David Jongewald.

From overview at Amazon books: David Jongeward brings to life the artistic journey of master weaver Carolyn Jongeward, beginning with her apprenticeship to Navajo weavers in Arizona and extending to her studies in sacred geometry and number symbolism, Native American philosophy, Jungian psychology, and creation mythology.

If you go to Amazon books http://books.google.com/books

and search for "Weaver of Worlds" you can select the book and be taken to a page where you can view a preview of the book. Mostly text, a couple of drawings, but the pictures in the book show some "modern" design that is inspiring.

Try locating it at your library first.

Have a good day!

 

Thu, 01/28/2010 - 06:52

sgt_majorette (not verified)

I put a picture of my Deschinney Loom in my projects! It's very tiny and cute and is sitting in a basket of Romney I'm combing.

Thu, 01/28/2010 - 06:56

Caroline (not verified)

I saw your photo in the projects, your loom is cute!

I was interested in your handspun though. How over spun is overspun for Navajo weaving? Will you be using your yarn as singles or plying it? Once you ply your yarn, how overspun is it going to be? All the usual questions from someone who is not quite game to use her own handspun yet.

Fri, 01/29/2010 - 00:28

sgt_majorette (not verified)

The loom is from Mark Deschinney, the "baby" size. I've promised myself to take some proper pictures of it.

I'm taking Mary Walker's online course, and I wish I could show you the picture of "overspun" yarn for the edge cord, it's twisted almost doubled, like I used to do my grandniece's hair when she was a baby. Remember, Navajo weavers overspin store-bought yarn!

I bought a skein each of warp and weft from Marilou Schultz at Rhinebeck, and both skeins were singles, pigtailed at even intervals throughout the skein. Kind of disturbing, but you don't see it once you ball up the yarn.

I find that if I wait till I'm ready to do something, I never get around to it. You won't get it right the first time, so the longer you put off those abortive attempts, the longer it will be until you develop skill. In "Navajo Weaving Way", one weaver says about learning to spin: "You can't complain until the tenth skein."

Sun, 01/31/2010 - 04:45

MaryMartha

Oh man, I like that.  He even got the warping holes onto the little loom.  Mark's Yazhi loom will weave up to about 26" wide.  What's the outside weaving width on the Awee?

Mon, 02/01/2010 - 04:53

sgt_majorette (not verified)

If you have to ask, it's too small!

The inside dimensions are approximately 10 7/8" x 11 7/8". I don't know how much space you need around your actual weaving. People always say "a couple of inches", but they never express it as a proportion, which would explain a lot for such a tiny loom!

Mon, 02/01/2010 - 08:43

dognapper2 (not verified)

How did the online class go? It was full by the time I came across the announcement...

Eager to hear all about it!!! Any bloggers taking the class? Pictures! ;)

Mon, 02/01/2010 - 18:45

sgt_majorette (not verified)

It was virtual futuristic fun! Couple of glitches, but we did some "classroom" practice to get used to the technology. My family may do Thanksgiving like this...

Most of us "cheated" and did the warps ahead of time, but the two who were working along did finish in good time.

Screen caps. Let me write that down...

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 16:08

claudia (not verified)

I was one of the people who did not find time to warp my loom ahead so I warped along with Mary.  It was nice to do it that way, I preferred it actually. I did not finish at the same time as she did and had to stay after class. I was shocked to see all my fellow classmates stayed on with me to the bitter end and then some. I finished my warp and got it up on my loom. It felt great.

Mary is an easy going person and very little puts her off track. There were a couple glitches and she just took them in stride.

Next week I will use the camera I have that can also take pictures and scren captures. I need to read a little about how but have done it before.

I would love to be able to review the class. Mary provided a detailed manual that is her copyrighted book and that is also a great resource.  I highly recommend this class and am totally indebted to my pal Mary (one of the students in the class) for letting me know the minute she found it so I could also sign up. I am soooo glad I did not miss this.

Claudia

My warp is crooked but I'm working on that.

Tue, 02/02/2010 - 23:06

MaryWalker

I, for one, am having a LOT of fun doing the online class and I think the students are the ones who are taking everything in stride and making it work.  Claudia and I are working on getting her warp properly mounted on the loom and we're exploring my theory that Navajo weaving is one third art, one third craft and one third engineering. 

Wed, 02/03/2010 - 09:24

dognapper2 (not verified)

So jealous! Will watch closely for news of a next class :)

The only video I've come across is of a boy being taught by his mom to weave. I tried a couple of styled joins but would love to find video of someone's hands doing a color change section.

Laurie in Maine

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 18:17

sgt_majorette (not verified)

I replaced that picture with a better one of the loom all warped up.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 19:36

MaryMartha

Thanks, though that first pic did a good job of giving the scale.  I've since heard from Mark that he has two portable loom models. The Ateed lap loom (about 16 X 24) and the smaller travel-sized  Awee (about 12 x 16). He also has a tool set sized for the smaller looms.  These are loom dimensions.  Subtract at least two inches for max weaving width. 

I already had a warp on my big loom and decided to use my cactusflower maxi loom for the online class, so I can have it with me at the computer.  The overall dimensions are 17 x 21, max. weaving width is 12".  This loom uses metal combs for warp spacing and heavy springs for self-adjusting tension.  Neither of these, it turns out, is a perfect substitute for good technique.  The warp  itself provides part of the tension, so uneven tension during initial warping still translates into unevenness on the loom.  The metal warp-spacing combs are subject to bending, and can be rough on warps and fingers. 

By not using a traditional loom for the class, I sacrificed the opportunity to practice all of Mary's warping  instructions and tips.  Overall, I did a better job of warping this time by resisting the urge to pull as taut as possible.  The idea that maximum tension translates to even tension doesn't seem to hold up.  Its a bit counterintuitive that a loose warp will have more even tension than a tight one, but that's my experience. 

 

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 20:31

sgt_majorette (not verified)

Awee is the one I've got, plus the toolset; it's the smallest one.  He builds big looms, too, not just travel-sized. I originally ordered one of his spindles, but the UPS shipping was silly so I had him throw in a big comb.

Turns out the Awee is the same size as the toy loom that comes with one of the American Girl dolls; too small to practice joins and things, or use a string heddle or proper weft yarn.

I took a slightly larger frame loom and turned it sideways to make the warp, like you do with Mark's looms. At least I'll be able to see what I'm doing and work along with the class.

I'm glad to read what you say about tension - it seemed that way to me, but I wasn't sure. I now have you to blame!

I like making Navajo warps. I'm walking around my apartment looking at everything rectangular and thinking, hmmmm.

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 17:16

MaryWalker

Jayne, you're starting to think like a Navajo!  That's exactly what people do when they need a loom.  I have seen looms made from bed frames, bicycle racks, strung up in doorways and hung between fenceposts. 

Fri, 04/16/2010 - 15:58

bolivian warmi

So, who has a C Cactus Flower loom? Any thoughts on this loom-I am thinking of getting one-will very much depend on the price. I had a big Navajo loom and wove quite a few large pieces on it and would love to have a wee loom to do some miniatures in super fine yarn. The concept of this loom seems sound-but how does it really hold up?

Laverne

Fri, 04/16/2010 - 17:10

MaryMartha

I have a love-hate relationship with mine. I got the maxi-loom which is slightly bigger than the mini. Outside dimensions are 17" by 21"     Max. weaving dimensions are 11 1/2" X about 18".

The loom is very light . I can carry it with one hand.  It needs to be propped against something, so at home it sits against my traditional loom. A friend and I experimented with bracing it against her Kromski harp/stand using the Kromski "warp helper" and that worked well.

The wood is good quality. The design is sound in terms of maintaining good tension overall.  There is no way to adjust tension in a particular spot, though.  It is fast and  easy to warp, but not foolproof.  The teeth of the metal "combs" holding the warp on top and bottom have a tendency to bend and this can throw off  warp spacing slightly. I think the effect is more serious vertically than horizontally, because the warp goes over the top of the tines but sits at the base between the tines. The metal combs are smooth, but can be a bit rough on  thinner warps. I wish replacement combs were available.

Both these issues - the combs bending and abrasion of the warps could be because I am too indelicate. I hear there are traditional Dine weavers who love theirs and  get great results, but of course they have the proper touch.

The heddle sticks and batten that came with it are OK, but I found the wood a bit soft. I did one four-heddle project and managed to finish it, but would not do another.

The metal combs do limit your options in terms of sett.  The basic spacing is 9 - 10 epi which seems to work with sport weight, but you can get to 6-7 by skipping every other tine.  You can't get to a tradition 8 epi or 12+, which may be appropriate for finer "tapestry weight" yarns.

Also, because the end cords sit outside the tines, twining the cords without twisting your warp can be a challenge. And, having that space for the tines below the cords limits your options in terms of finishing techniques. weaving/finishing right at the edge is difficult.

 

 

Fri, 04/16/2010 - 18:04

tommye scanlin

 You might want to consider building the copper pipe loom as shown on Archie Brennan's website.  It can be adapted to weaving in a Navajo way.

Tommye

 

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 01:25

bolivian warmi

Thank you both Tommye and Mary Martha for your information and suggestions. I have been holding off looking at the site and seeing the price-this could well be the deciding factor.

Laverne

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 03:13

tommye scanlin

 You might also take a look at Susan Maffei's method for four selvedge warping at the Brennan/Maffei website:

http://www.brennan-maffei.com/images/4%20selvedge%20warping%20instructions.pdf

Tommye

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 15:24

choteau7 (not verified)

Mary Walker has posted her new on line Navajo Weaving class schedule on her site http://weavinginbeauty.com/. It looks like there are a lot of students for her classes.

Mike

Sun, 04/18/2010 - 14:25

newenglandsimp… (not verified)

Hi Laverne - You might also want to look at the looms made by New York Cedar works.  Theirs was the loom I was going to buy before my brother said he could make one.  Their smallest loom is a bit larger than the C-Cactus Mini and about the same price.  Theirs are more traditional-looking.      www.nycedarworks.com/id3.html 

Laurie

(new to this list, from Cape Cod, MA, and on the backstrappers list)

Sat, 04/24/2010 - 01:44

Gladysm (not verified)

I have been Navajo weaving since my first class in 1972. There was a book, Noel Bennett's "Working with the Wool", but no warp or weft available where I live in Colorado. So we made do with what we could order. The first weaving was never finished because of broken warp. But soon I discovered good supplies, took more classes and started teaching in 1981. I have taught both here in Colorado ( Laverne Waddington was one student) and in New Mexico at Ghost Ranch near Abiquiu. I have both a mini c.cactus and a mini Mark Deschinney besides several looms made by friends  etc. Two of my Navajo teachers were invaluable in their teaching, Mae Jim and Angie Maloney. Angie made a great video several years ago that really explains edging cord. It was available at the Yarn Barn. With a wonderful friend from Utah, Sam (Mary)  Cunningham I led many Trading Post Tours through out the Navajo reservation with my guild, Mesa Fiber Arts Guild. I also have three floor looms. lots of knitting needles, a spinning wheel. and I'm running out of time. I spent yesterday teaching 15 five year olds how to weave on a cardboard loom and today felting scarves for a guild challange. I have just discovered the world of the internet and am having a great time.

 

Gladys Miller - Grand Junction, CO

Sat, 04/24/2010 - 02:12

francorios (not verified)

Hello Gladys!

Thank you for joining us!

I hope you are enjoying the internet. I learned how to weave with information found on the  internet.

Have a good day!

Franco Rios - Sacramento, Calif.

Sat, 04/24/2010 - 11:16

claudia (not verified)

Hello Gladys and welcome to Weavolution.  We are so happy you found us.

What a wonderful story of your Navajo weaving experiences.  I bought Angie's video several years ago and learned a great deal from it.  I also own all of Noel Bennett's books and have used them all.

I own a Mark Deschinney loom too and met him in September 2009 when we visited Window Rock.  He's a wonderful wood worker and makes lovely looms.

We look forward to seeing some of your Navajo style rugs in your projects folder.  Feel free to contact me if you have any questions or problems with Weavolution although we are all here to help and learn from each other. 

Claudia, Weavolution co-founder

Mon, 04/26/2010 - 13:06

pamengberg (not verified)

Hi, everyone - some comments about the cactusflower looms:

My weaving group (Brimfield, MA) here has all 3 sizes - the tiny mini, the maxi, and the table loom. I am using the table loom, and I like it a lot. However, we also are having issues with the metal combs - they don't seem to be "finished" enough so the warp sometimes gets cut, even when you are very careful. So - I have a friend who is going to take me to meet his machinist buddy, and we are going to look at two options: (1) See if he can polish the combs to smooth them off; and.or (2) see of he can make combs of his own design that we can use to replace the existing ones. Ideally I'd like to be able to change the sett. My students like to use Burnham's #2 size Navajo yarn (the thicker size) and 9 epi is too close for that so they struggle with the Maxis' sett. The table loom comes with an 8 epi comb, which allows you to use either the Burnham's #2 size or the #1 finer size, or two fine strands together to blend colors. (You can get to Burnham's via Mary Walker's site or directly at http://rbburnhamtrading.com. ) I will let you know the outcome.

However - I know Jennie Slick uses one a lot, so maybe she or Mary has some suggestions about how to cope with the sharp edges? It doesn't seem to be a problem for Jennie!!

About the side cords: Below are photos of the attachment to the cactus flower, bottom and top - I put the cord in the slots adjacent to the edge warp, because I like to use the method where you weave it with the edge warp (it's easier for me to remember). So, at the bottom, it actually goes with one cord in the adjacent slot, one in the next slot, and the knot keeps it in place; then at the top I bring them again, in front, one through the slot adjacent to the edge warp, one in the slot next to it; then over the top of the top beam, down around it, and tie them in a bow around themselves. Hard to explain in words, but maybe the photos will clarify? If not, let me know; I'll get my husband to wield the camera - he's much better.

Fri, 04/30/2010 - 18:03

MaryWalker

I've never had a problem with the Cactusflower loom's teeth cutting the warps, but I can see how it could be a problem if the teeth aren't smooth.  I've had more issues with the combs bending. 

I use Brown Sheep wool warp and so does Jennie.  Jennie can finish a piece on the loom in a few days, so perhaps the short time that the warp is at tension is a factor.  She and I also use relatively small battens, but I don't think they're any smaller than the ones that come with the loom. 

Has anyone contacted Caroline Spurgeon about this?  She's the person behind the loom. 

 

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 20:43

Marsha A. Knox (not verified)

I built my loom from the hardware store.  It is based on Navajo and the Mirrix loom.  Very economical and after years of trial and error I have finally perfected it to what I need and want in my loom.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 19:16

Melinda CK (not verified)

I am hoping you meant 50" long....

Do you have a loom yet?  I have used Navajo waeaving techniques on a treadle floor loom, 2 harness.  The one I used has a 45 inch reed and continuous warp. 

 

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 19:31

Melinda CK (not verified)

here is some more - shuttles are nice but not required, bobbins are nice but you can live without them! Organize your yarn in 'butterflies"  (figure 8's around your thumb and index finger) and you will be fine until you have a better idea of what you want to do. Shuttles are helpful if you are weaving across a broad (wide) area and you really can't use them on a vertical loom very well unless you have a pretty deep shed (like 3 inches) which you probably don't have.

 

there is another book by Rachel Brown. She is the founder of Weaving Southwest in Taos - can't remember the name of it but you can get it on Amazon.  It is a comprehensive guide to differnt kinds of weaving. Very helpful and not as arrogant as some of the other literature tends to be.

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Navajo Weaving Techniques