Hello all!  I am a novice weaver.  I have some limited experience weaving on a rigid heddle loom but could not stand the slow pace.  I just recently bought an Ashford 8-shaft table loom which I love.  With the loom I purchased a warping board.  Its supposed to make warping easier right? Well let me tell you, I have had nothing approaching an easy time with it.  Ive made two scarves on the loom so far.  The first was a disaster.  Too narrow and too short.  But the second came out great (2/2 twill).  Although I had the same problem with the second one as I am now having with the third.  Both were 14" in width so i divided them into 7" bouts.  The problem comes when i want to combine the bouts and beam them.  Everything gets twisted and tangled.  Both times Ive had to cut the ends and comb out the threading cross just so that i could untangle the warp length.  Its infuriating!  And of course because there is no threading cross the threads are out of order.  Any suggestions for preventing this problem and now fiixing the order problems Im having?  Thanks.  Sorry for the length.

Comments

Wed, 07/24/2013 - 19:56

Jan Bogue

 I google the name and check it out.  Thanks

Sat, 07/27/2013 - 04:22

Jan Bogue

How do you properly wind a boat shuttle bobbin? 

My selvedges are doing pretty good, but I am spending too much time adjusting them. As a beginner I can see that how the yarn comes off of the bobbin has a lot to do with the look of the selvedges.  I have tried to put my thumb on the bobbin to regulate the tension, but this proved to much, so the warp starts to pull in. I tried without the thumb pressure and I found that this works better, but the yarn can hang up in the bobbin which again causes an irregular selvedge.  I have an adjustable old endfeed shuttle, but I think this would not work with the heavy cotton I am using.  I would like to know if there is a consistent way to wind the bobbin so that the tension out of the shuttle remains reasonably consistent.  Oh, before I forget how would you start a new thread on the site dedicated to bobbin winding?  

Sat, 07/27/2013 - 05:11

laurafry

If you are using plastic bobbins with flanges, this is the way I do it... Wrap the beginning of the yarn round the bobbin by the flange. Then build up a 'hill' against the flange. Run the yarn to the other flange and build up a hill. Then evenly fill in the 'valley'. I have a video clip on You Tube which you may find helpful. Cheers Laura
Sat, 07/27/2013 - 13:16

Dena (not verified)

Yes to what Laura said, and keep in mind that your bobbin should be good and tight.  When you press down on it there shouldn't be any give.  This will make a big difference on your selvedges. 

In terms of regulating the tension with your finger while catching the shuttle (and for me, it's my index finger since I throw with my hands facing down)...you use your finger to slow down the bobbin, but never to stop it.  It makes a big difference.  Sometimes I need to, sometimes I don't.  It depends on how tightly I wind the bobbin, how wide my warp is, the yarn I am using and sometimes even whether I am at the top of bottom of the bobbin.  What you are aiming for is to develop an intuitive relationship with your weaving so you can feel what you need to do by how the shuttle feels when you catch it.

Sat, 07/27/2013 - 16:47

laurafry

As Dena says, you must be aware of the feedback you are getting from your shuttle/bobbin/loom.  I use weaving as a working meditation.  When I am in the 'zone' time passes by so quickly I sometimes have to rely on the cd I'm playing ending to remind me to stop for a rest break.  :)

cheers,

Laura

Sat, 07/27/2013 - 19:39

Jan Bogue

Ok, super posts by both of you. I will follow your advice.  Figured there was a subtle relationship between the weaver and the shuttle.  Thanks again. 

Sun, 07/28/2013 - 21:19

ken

hoping to get some help with dressing my loom. I've only been weaving 7 months, and warped one project with a friend of mine who weaves. my last 2 projects i tried warping on my own.  My problem is the same as the original post; twisted warps. compounding this problem is the fact that I only have one arm. I first learned to warp b2f. my warp threads end up getting twisted around between my lease sticks. my method of warping has been:

1. make small chains,then lay them over my loom.

2. secure my raddle over the back beam.

3. secure my warp to the back apron rod and spread the threads out accross my raddle.

4. insert my lease sticks.

5. thread heddles and sley the read.

6. lash on to the front apron rod.

I considered warping f2b, but i have no way of holding the warp in one hand while threading with the other. any suggestions?

Mon, 07/29/2013 - 12:12

Dena (not verified)

I warp front to back.  The lease sticks are taped to the breast beam of the loom while threading the reed.  I don't beam under tension, but watch the threads carefully as they go over the back beam and around the warp beam (this works for most, but not all fibers).  I use the beater as an indicator for when I have tangles to deal with (if the beater moves from the front position to the back position, it's time to clean out my warp).  A few times while beaming long warps, I will brace my foot on the loom and give the warp a good, hard pull.  While threading the reed, I push the cross all the way to one side of the lease sticks and only pull over the threads that I am working with at one time.  There are a few important knots in the process.  How are you with knots?  (I am having a hard time imagining those one handed.)
Mon, 07/29/2013 - 15:25

sally orgren

What exactly do you mean "twisted around" the lease sticks?

1) Are the threads literally knotting up and getting dragged back toward the beam when winding on?

2) Or, are the warps twisted between the lease sticks and the back beam when beaming?

For #1, if there is not enough tension on your warps when beaming, the warp threads may buddy up and make a mess at the cross. I hang 2 pound water weights for each 3" bout off the front of the loom for consistent tension all the way across the warp. I use little nooses and clip-type clothes pins to hold/easily adjust them. Every once in a while, a warp might start to "handcuff" another thread and drag it back toward the beam, but this is very rare. Usually that errant warp has gone astray and is not under similar tension as the rest. Warps under tension beam best. (I used to be a "crank and yanker", but prefer this more consistent and efficient method now, as I can crank a lot longer before I have to adjust the bottles and I get a rock hard warp beam.)

For #2, I slide the warp directly onto the rod and lease sticks from the warp board. I don't bring the bouts over to the loom separately as I go, then attach the rod and lease sticks later. By migrating the bouts directly to the rod and lease sticks, I don't change their orientation without realizing it.

An alternative is to lay your rod and lease sticks on a flat surface (like a bed), and place each bout onto the rod and into the lease sticks as you take it off the warp board, to preserve the orientation. (I also don't chain my warp, I just fold it into a ziplock bag as it comes off the warping device, or drape it over my arm as I migrate it to the rod/lease sticks.)

FYI, I warp B2F. I find when the warp is beamed and I am ready to thread, sliding the lease sticks as close to the castle (at the back of the loom) holds them exactly where I need to see the warp thread order and reach them. 

I am curious. Do you use a tool for threading/sleying, or just bend the yarn and poke it through the heddle or the dent?

Trying to think about weaving using only one arm leaves me in awe. I am sure you have come up with a million and one adaptations to the process that would be fascinating. Good luck. Let us know what you try next.

Tue, 07/30/2013 - 03:01

Jan Bogue

Ken, I am a beginner too with about 8 months.  I am a guy with both hands, but I still can't deal with strings and stick flopping around, so I bolted my lease stick to my new loom. I learned on a 15 inch loom, but I still secured the raddle and the sticks.  No strings bolding the reed either. Pins to the loom.  I can't tie knots with both hands.  You got me thinking on how to make a devise that would secure that pesky wad of warp while you pull the next thread through the proper heddle. I am getting ready to warp the new loom the second time.  I think I wil put one arm behind my back and see what I come up with.  I am thinking now of some type of friction clamp.  Hang in there. Where there is a warp there is a way.  Just finished my first humble project, dish rags.  

Tue, 07/30/2013 - 17:13

ken

Hi Dena,

actually not to bad with the knots. I typically thread 1 inch and then use a slipknot to keep them from falling  back through the heddles. the same when I slay the reed.

Tue, 07/30/2013 - 18:48

sally orgren

Daryl Lancaster is the only other person I know who can tie knots one handed, and those were small sewing knots in thread, not slip knotted bouts.

I use clip-type clothes pins to hold the bouts as I thread and sley. Puts a little tension on them, that helps. Not sure if that would be easier for you or not. 

Do you use a heddle hook or sley hook, or just fold the yarn over and poke it through the eye of the heddle or dent in the reed, then pull it through?

Thu, 08/01/2013 - 02:23

ken

Hi Sally,

I use a threading hook for sleying the reed. I have 2- 36" lease sticks that I run perpendicular and rest on cloth beam/warp beam. I set my reed flat down across both sticks. I lay each thread across the dent,reach underneath with my threading hook and pull it down through the dent. The heddles I feed through by hand. Seems to work good for me.

Thu, 08/01/2013 - 02:46

ken

this was my first project done alone. I hemstitch the ends so i don't have to try and twist the fringe.tartan lapghan

used a straight draw,floating salvedges. I made this for the woman my wife works for who is paraplegic. I kept the length and fringe short to keep it from getting tangled up in the wheels of her chair. the demensions are 29" wide.46" long(fringe included).

Fri, 08/02/2013 - 21:57

Jan Bogue

I just started my multiple color warp for the first time today.  I have not gotten to the stage where I count off the exact number of colors in the warp and the weft yet, to make a color pattern.  That will be next. I would like to see some pictures of where you experince trouble as you stated in the posts above.   

Sat, 08/03/2013 - 00:08

ken

Thanks Jan,

I think you'll find tartans/plaids etc. to be a little more time consuming but a lot of fun. Will you be doing a twill or plain weave for this warp? What kind of fiber are you going to use?  BTW I wanted to comment on your lease sticks....I like the idea. Being mounted like they are can you still fold your loom up?  My wife likes the idea that my loom can fold up and take less room. If I can't do that,then I'll have to stay put. Of course I think she just wants to have more room to store her yarn stash...lol. Let me know how that warp comes out.

Sat, 08/03/2013 - 02:24

sandra.eberhar…

I think you might want to insert the lease sticks as step#2.  Once you get the lease sticks inserted, the warp has less wiggle room.  As other people have pointed out, thread under tension is thread in control.  You say that you lay your chains out over the loom; you may want to find a way to tension them.    I pull out a little from the chain over the top of the roller (valet or trapeze, mounted over the loom on the ceiling) and stretch it to the back.  I like to warp b to f, I have never been able to hold threads in one hand and thread with the other.  I fix one side of a pair of lease sticks to the hanging beater swords or the castle with tape.  I can pull threads one at a time and thread from the threading cross pretty fast.

Sat, 08/03/2013 - 08:51

ReedGuy

That's a nice throw/blanket, Ken. Great job. Looks warm. :)

Sat, 08/03/2013 - 18:27

ken

Hi Sally,

I just wanted to thank you for your ideas regarding when to put the lease sticks in and how. I decided to warp on a small 6" sample to see how it goes. I put the lease sticks in while the warp was still on the board using 2" ring binders at each end. I then layed it out on the bed and slid the apron rod through the ends and carried it out to the loom. I secured the rod to the beam stick at both ends using 2 of my wifes elastic hair bands. my threads stayed in order and weren't twisted over each other between the lease sticks. I'm now threading the heddles and i gotta tell you. it's a sheer delight. Thanks again, and thanks to everyone who pitched in with ideas.

Sat, 08/03/2013 - 23:14

Jan Bogue

I put everything on with hanger bolts that are a woodscrew on one end and 1/4 bolt threads on the other end.  Using wingnuts makes it easy to take them off and get them out of the way.  Right now I am using bargain Walmart yarn in polyester or cotton for my practice work.  When my technique improves I will buy some of the expensive wools and cottons.  

Sun, 08/04/2013 - 07:54

ReedGuy

I was going to try some heavy cotton from Walmart sometime. Trouble is there are no colors. The skeins are huge 3500 yards. I'm not sure how that stuff will behave on a loom. It's a similar size to a 2-ply knitting wool. It will have to be wound onto spools first so it can be properly measured on my warp mill.

Mon, 08/05/2013 - 01:11

ken

Have you tried Crochet Thread? My wife had some leftover when she was making doilies. The #10 is 46 epi give or take 1 or 2. its either 2 or 3 ply. I warped on a sample a couple of months ago to try an overshot pattern. Tried acrylic, and several different cottons for the weft. There is very little if any "give" to cotton in my humble opinion.

My current project that i just finished threading yesterday, is crochet cotton sett at 30 epi. I'll be using Acrylic for the weft sett at 10ppi. Since the cotton is mercerized there should be little to no shrinkage when washed.

well it's Sunday August 4th. I finished sleying the reed and lashing on to the front Apron rod. I threw a number of shots and this is what i ended up with...

I want to thank everyone for their input on my warping problem. because of all of you this is what I ended up with....

That is to me, the finest warp I have ever put on up till now. and I have all you folks out there to thank for it. Thanks for your input and encouragement.

Sun, 08/04/2013 - 13:04

ken

Hi Jan,

I know what you mean regarding bargain yarn. Thats par for the course with me, lol. My wife gets discount coupons from A.C. Moore and we'll go on a yarn buying date complete with a stop at dunkin donuts :). My dad got us each a gift card from there for our anniversary. One coupon she got was for 50% off on regurlarly marked items. So I bought two 1lb  pull skeins of Caron acrylic for like $10. Of course I used my gift card,so it costed me nothing.

Around here Jan(upstate NY), Wools and such are expensive. I find the average person couldn't afford to buy these types of woven items. Most people today don't have time to hand wash; they want something they can just toss in the machine and forget about it. Can you imagine a kid wearing a $60 silk/wool scarf and then spilling pizza sauce on it? lol.

I have a friend who weaves Scarves and such using wool and silk. He charges about $60 for one. People tell him he doesn't charge enough. But, the people that buy from him are mostly the NY City crowd. Big incomes and big spenders.

I guess I'm just for the average joe, like myself.

Sun, 08/04/2013 - 15:38

Jan Bogue

The problem with living on the open desert about 50 miles from Palm Springs is that the closest town to carry a quart of milk and a bag of chips is about 30 miles away.  Even Palms Springs does not have a yarn selection.  You really have to go to Los Angeles to see yarn for sale.  I bought what is called The Yarn Store in a Box from Halcyon Yarn Co. I figure I better know my materials before I start building a house.  

Sun, 08/04/2013 - 16:13

Jan Bogue

I made ten of these 10 x 10 inches using Walmart large cones of eight dollar cotton.  One cone for the warp and almost one cone of multi-colored for the weft.  Giving them away to friends for wash rags.  I would like to see if my zigzag at the ends will keep things in place.  I know less about operating a sewing machine than I do about weaving, and I know little about weaving. HaHa!  

Sun, 08/04/2013 - 18:40

ReedGuy

#10 crochet cotton I get at Walmart has a set of around 24 epi in twill I find. It's actually a lot cheaper at Marden's and 3 times the yardage. $4 for 1050 yards.

Your sewing skills sound like mine Jan. Only thing is, we often have to sew wovens to finish them off. :)  I find 16/2 cotton is just fine enough to sew with, but it's not without it's challenges. ;)

Expensive doesn't sell around here. Heck, if you charge more than $5-10 a night at a community hall for music the hall will be empty. And there had better be food. :D

Sun, 08/04/2013 - 20:57

Jan Bogue

I know gauges in my world, but yarn gauges just don't make sense. I get the idea of say 8/2 as being 8 for the gauge and 2 for the ply like in tires, but when I looked at the link below, it seems that several yarns are different diameters but are still called 8/2, or 10/2. Does the first number have anything to do with the diameter of the yarn as in wire sizes?  The range seems to run from 3 to 30. I have included a picture of my Yarn Store in a Box, which will be great if I can figure out their yarn diameter system. I like their suggestions for warp threads per inch and wefts per inch and set which I think has to do with the reed, but........the system is tying my beginner brain in knots! I have also included a picture of what I would call fine gauge yarn, but what size is it?  I can count the plys; that is easy.  I used my gauge to find around 30 threads per inch.  Help!

Below is the site for the free download which show several yarns which appear to be the same diameter but have different ?/? I guess gauges. 

http://www.weavingtoday.com/media/p/8620/showcontent.aspx

Sun, 08/04/2013 - 22:23

laurafry

The numbering system for yarn is a bit...challenging...partly because different fibres use different 'counts'.  e.g.

Cotton has a value of 840 yards per pound for a #1.  Each number multiples that 840 so that a 2 would be twice as many yards per pound, an 8 would be 8 times that for yards per pound.  The 2 (or 3 or 4) is the number of plies so a 2/8 (or 8/2) cotton would be 8 x 840 = 6720 divided by 2 for a total of approximately 3360 yards per pound.  Remember that yards per pound for yarn is always an approximate!

Linen uses a different number of yards per pound for 1, as does wool.  Wool can be even more confusing because within wool there can be several different counts used and whether it is woolen or worsted.

And then you have the metric numbering systems.

So the best thing to do is go by the yards per pound, do a ruler wrap to get an approximate number of ends per inch, factor in your weave structure and make a sample.

You might study the projects in Handwoven, if you have a guild with a library and an archive of actual samples, study them to see what happens with the same yarn in different formats, etc.

cheers

Laura

Sun, 08/04/2013 - 22:51

ReedGuy

It can all be challenging, and is. I've only woven for a bit over a year and still figuring stuff out. I don't know if I'll be under a loom in 30 years tying cords, if so I might be there for a long time and need one of those alert buttons. :D

Sun, 08/04/2013 - 23:29

Jan Bogue

Too bad when a system becomes a burden.  I don't mind the yarn hunt and peck method except when it comes to ordering yarn on the net.  This is why I bought the Yarn Store in a Box.  Now I have to figure out their system to order.   

Mon, 08/05/2013 - 02:29

Jan Bogue

I don't see this  #4, #10, #8 system. I see 8/2, 30/4, 10/2.  Where are you geting this ### followed by a number?  Is this another system of yarn gauge?  :)

Mon, 08/05/2013 - 03:01

laurafry

8/2 cotton means that you multiply 8 x 840 then divide by 2 for yards per pound 10/2 cotton means that you multiply 10 x 840 then divide by 2 for yards per pound If you have M. P. Davison's book she has a chart showing the 'count' for the commonly available weaving yarns. Knitting uses another system entirely. If you don't understand the system, just go by the yards per pound as listed by the supplier, do a ruler wrap to estimate epi, adjust for weave structure, weave some samples, examine other people's samples if at all possible. It is a process, learning how yarns behave in woven structure. Cheers Laura
Mon, 08/05/2013 - 03:41

Jan Bogue

I am starting to understand it now.  The system is based on weight not diameter.  Less yards per pound means thicker and more yards per pound means finer. 

Mon, 08/05/2013 - 07:34

ReedGuy

Jan, on crochet cotton they put yardage, but also #10 is there to for instance. It's 10/2 cotton. You will find the sett to be closer than 8/2 you order online for the same draft.

I guess it's not a science like forestry. In forestry we use trig math to figure out density (#/acre) of trees when point sampling with a wedge prism or angle gauge. The math and methods are consistant. :D

 

Mon, 08/05/2013 - 11:31

Artistry

Jan, I hope you like the Yarn Store in a Box by Halcyon Yarns. One of the things I liked about them is that you could buy mini cones so you could use lots of colors but not have the expense of whole cones. Enjoy Weaving! Cathie
Mon, 08/05/2013 - 15:15

Nassajah (not verified)

Hi Jan,

I also have an Artisat that I really enjoy weaving on.  I also warp by myself.  It's for that reason I find you 'gadjets' you made to hold your lease sticks and the back apon rod interesting.  Could you please PM me with details on how you made them andhow they attachto the loom?  It would help me warping very much.

Thanks!

Nassajah

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 00:24

Jan Bogue

Yes, Cathie I think I will like the yarn box. I can see the yarn!  I figure I will call up H and say I am on this page and I need this yarn item number and see if we both agree on the size and color before I pay. 

Reed G I figure that if I combine a go no go gauge, surveyor transit, an egg beater and a chicken plucker I should be able to come up with a consistent way to identify yarn gauges. :)

Nassajh I sent you eight pictures of how I installed fixtures on the loom as a PM. Hope these help. :)

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 00:55

Jan Bogue

After I finish with what is on the loom now, I would like to warp using what to me is fine yarn.  I a starting to worry about what to tie the chokes with so I can cut them loose without cutting the warp threads.  Once I get the loom warped will I have to be super delicate with the shuttle, will the edge warp thread become loose?  If you have any suggestions on what to steer clear of when weaving fine thread they would be appreciated.  Thanks, :)

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 01:36

Sara von Tresckow

You tie the chokes with a half bow knot - just like tying your shoes, only you make just one loop. There is then a little tail that you pull for a quick release knot - no need to cut anything. Material should be a bit thicker than your warp thread and a contrasting color so you can see it - I like lime green or orange.

As for yarn numbering systems, look for a table that contains Nm and/or Tex systems. Both are based on the metric system and all fibers are measured by the same criteria. That might be helpful.

Yards per pound or meters per kilogram are the most useful ways to compare yarn.

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 01:51

Jan Bogue

Thanks I will practice that until I can make it tight.  

Wed, 08/07/2013 - 22:21

Jan Bogue

I just finished weaving the warp on the loom, so now what do I do with it? It is 15 inches wide and 10 feet long. Popeye wants me to make him a small hammock with part of it, but I can't picture him on his back, tree climber feet sticking up in the air, sipping on a cool drink through a flex-straw. Too big to be a head band. Use it when I do a brake job on my car, nah. Skip rope with it?

Wed, 08/07/2013 - 22:28

laurafry

Have you wet finished it yet?  It will lose some length/width the first time it hits the water.  And then it could be a Dr. Who scarf?

cheers,

Laura

Wed, 08/07/2013 - 22:47

Jan Bogue

I have to study up on this wet finish stuff.  It is all acrylic yarn from Walmart.  Will plastic yarn shrink? 

Wed, 08/07/2013 - 23:16

ryashani (not verified)

I am fairly new to weaving on a floor loom but have issues at times with my neck (and one of the side effects is that I have no grip at all with one or both hands).  I warp back to front and use a cross at both ends of my warp chains.

I had no issues warping my first few projects but when I went to warp the last one (800 ends of 6/1 wool) my problem had flared up and I was having an issue reaching through to pick up my ends off the lease sticks, nor could I hold onto the cross itself and pick up the yarn from there.  My solution (while imperfect) was to create what I called a spider-holder (in my house any thread or yarn that misbehaves or bunches up is called a spider).  I used stiff foam and bamboo skewers and it sat right in the shafts and held the cross.  I was able to pick up one thread at a time from the cross and thread the heddles.  It would not have worked with slippery or heavy yarn, but for something light weight and with lots of "grab" I was able to manage with it (I added two more skewers after I took this pic).

 

 

Wed, 08/07/2013 - 23:55

laurafry

It isn't that the yarn will shrink, but relax.  Wet finishing will generally make a much more drape-y fabric as the threads shift and move to areas of least resistance (such as in waffle weave, lace weaves, anything where the threads move out of their perpendicular alignment, especially).

Reed marks often times disappear entirely or are greatly reduced.  And any dirt or spin oil is scoured out along with any fugitive dye.  Not something to be wary of in acrylic, but you may use something else in the future.

Wet finishing is for weavers like firing the clay is to potters.  It is the final step in the process of transforming individual threads into whole cloth.  :)

Yes, I'm biased!  :DDDD

cheers,

Laura

Thu, 08/08/2013 - 02:46

Jan Bogue

Ok, I will check out the final firing of fabric. :)

Thu, 08/08/2013 - 08:22

ReedGuy

You'll want to do something with the ends: fringe, sew etc.... or weft will unravel. ;)

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 21:28

Jan Bogue

 

The problem that I am having is tying on to the first peg on the warping board.  The first thread and the other threads when I have to break the thread and start again at the first peg becomes loose because of the slip knot.  So at the end of drawing all the threads through the lease sticks and through the loom they become a little longer than the others and so they are loose. 

Fri, 08/09/2013 - 23:44

Sara von Tresckow

Evening out these "loose" threads is the function of drawing the warp through the lease sticks. Those uneven ends at the breast beam are evened out when tying the bouts to the stick. It is of no consequence to have a little difference in individual thread lengths - important is that those on the warp beam are pretty even.