So, I'm working on my first draw loom warp - an eight shaft damask.   I used "fat" yarn for this first warp because I was building the various draw loom components as I wove - 5/2 cotton set at 27 epi.

Eight shaft damask has floats of 7 threads.   I am using 4 thread blocks to make the pixels smaller, but I'm wondering now if that was a good idea.   I'm having trouble getting a balanced square.   If I use 4 picks, the  square is not "tall" enough.   If I use 6 picks, it's a little too tall.   I know it's supposed to be balanced, so what is wrong?   Do I need to make the sett tighter, or loosen my beat?   The problem with loosening the beat, of course, is that the square doesn't really fill in that well - probable because I've only got 4 threads in a block.

I've tried some experiments - using two blocks next to each other to create an eight thread block and then weaving 8 picks, but I just get the same result, only bigger.  Does anyone have some advice here?

PS.  I know, 5/2 cotton is probably not the best, but as I said this was a first warp and I was building the loom as I went, starting with the shaft draw, and then adding the single unit draw, etc. etc.   The plan is to use this warp to tie on a finer linen warp later.

Comments

Thu, 09/13/2012 - 17:34

Dawn McCarthy

Just to clarify - do you have an 8 shaft satin set up (8 ground shafts straight draw) and therefore have 8 threads in one pattern unit on the long heddles? Your treadling is 8 picks.  If you are using the same warp and weft it should be almost square?  Not sure what you mean by 4 thread blocks in the damask? (sorry - I'm not too sharp today)

What is the pattern you are trying to obtain?

Dawn

Thu, 09/13/2012 - 17:46

SallyE (not verified)

Yes, 8 ground shafts, straight draw.  But the threads are also threaded through pattern heddles, 4 per block.  So when you weave, you do the pattern pulls and then treddle 1 through 4.  Then you change the pattern pulls and weave 5 through 8.  (I have an unused treddle between 4 and 5 to help me remember.)

This is just a variation on the block size - 4 threads instead of 8.   Becky said we could do that to make the blocks / pixels smaller.  Actually, within reason, there doesn't have to be any relationship between the number of threads in the damask ground repeat and the number of threads in a pattern block.  

Of course, using some numbers (5, 7) might drive you nuts trying to keep track of where you are in your treddling!!

Thu, 09/13/2012 - 20:27

ReedGuy

Might need more picks if the warp yarn is thicker or the epi smaller? The sett of the warp might over or under compensate if it's thicker than the weft.

Thu, 09/13/2012 - 20:59

SallyE (not verified)

Both warp and weft are 5/2 cotton.   I did go back to my books this afternoon - if all else fails, read the manual!

Anyway, there is a short chapter (Weave Structures for Damask) in the book Damask and Opphamta by Lillemore Johansson, pages 160-162. 

I learned two things.  One, you can use different weights of yarns and different numbers of picks to produce the block, depending on what you are trying to do.  And two, the tie-up and structure I'm using is only suitable for fine threads.  I don't think 5/2 qualifies as a fine thread . .

But anyway, this is just a test warp and the idea is to learn, so I guess from that point of view it's successful!

So now I'm going to play with thicker and finer warp thread.   Maybe if I use finer thread, I can do a square block with 8 picks.

 

Thu, 09/13/2012 - 21:38

Sara von Tresckow

8 end satin packs a lot more densely than 5 end. You have to do trial anderror, including changing your sett or changing the number of picks. This is something you have to work through yourself until it pleases you.
Thu, 09/13/2012 - 22:06

ReedGuy

Sounds like the proper approaches to the problem to me. I am also experimenting but on hold until I buy a finer reed from Leclerc. :)

I found some stiffer SS for my fenders on the shuttle boxes, neighbor had a piece of 3/16" in the shop. So I am making modifications there and then will be making a hand shuttle with side feed soon after. So that also means turning some wooden spools. I have some 1/8" SS rod to mount them in the shuttle.

Fri, 09/14/2012 - 00:28

Dawn McCarthy

Please post pics and info of your experiments, this is why some weavers spend a lifetime on a particular weave structure - so many variations!  I want to combine different structures on the damask loom next.  So much to do, so little time!

Dawn

Fri, 09/14/2012 - 01:17

SallyE (not verified)

I did some experiments with different size yarns, and here is what I found:

First, remember that this warp is 5/2 cotton and it is a straight draw, 8 shaft damask.  As the patten hettles are threaded, each block is 4 threads.  A side note here - assuming you have the pattern heddles to do it, setting the block width (4 threads in this case) at half the number of shafts (8) being used gives you extra flexibility in pattern development if you are using a single unit draw.  You can always design with half the number of blocks and pull the blocks in pairs to get an 8 thread wide block.

For the weft, I was using a 5/2 cotton also, but doing 6 picks per block.  This wasn't giving me a real square, although it did look OK, more or less. 

Next I tried an 8/2 cotton, and I tried block consisting of both 4 picks and 6 picks.   The 4 pick blocks were not tall enough and the 6 pick blocks were too tall.  The other problem is, because I have an 8 shaft tie up, the blocks don't tend to be fully filled in with straight sides as would be the case with an 8 pick block.

That last point led me to think that I needed a yarn that was fine enough to give me a square block with a full 8 picks, even though my blocks were only 4 threads wide.

So, next I tried 10/2 cotton, and 8 pick wide blocks.  This seems to work perfectly, and makes sense because 10/2 is roughly half the size of 5/2 yarn.   The blocks are 4 mm both vertically and horizontally, and because I'm using all the shafts for each pattern block, there are no oddly shaped edges to the blocks.

You would think that using 5/2 cotton and 4 picks would be equivalent to using 10/2 cotton and 8 picks, bit it just isn't so.  The blocks have a much nicer shape with the 10/2 cotton and 8 picks.

Ok, well I learned a lot today!   Any thank you for the comments, Dawn and Sara!   I love weavolution - it's so easy to get help right when you need it!