Hello,

I am officially on my SECOND rug!  Yippee!  I finished my first and it was "OK" but i thought real good for a first time rug!

If anyone has any suggestions I would totally love to hear them....here is my problem...this is also the second time I have ever "warped" the loom, both rugs I have made seem to have a "hill" in the weaving.  My first one kinda ran "uphill" and this one has a hump in the same location.

I am attaching a picture of the weaving to show where it has a hump.

ANyone ever deal with this?  Is it a mistake in my weaving? Warping? Any suggestions? 
Thanks SO Much.

Thanks, Jera

 

I am also going to load a picture of my first rug....just to show it to someone who cares (unlike my family who say "very nice dear"  lol) :-)

 

Comments

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 20:40

Sara von Tresckow

You don't give enough information.What type of loom are you using?

What is your warp material? What are you using for weft?

Which book(s) are you using for reference?

This is a common issue and can have sereral causes. Using a temple can help as well as beaming your warp with even tension. Unevenness in your weft material can also make a difference. Your beating technique also adds to the mix.

Your first rug has some serious tension issues as it refuses to lay flat on the floor, making it a danger to anyone walking over it. Weaving takes practice and considerable knowledge of the process and materials and often new weavers assume that rag rugs will be a snap beginner project when they do require some experience to turn out well.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 21:00

jlrendel

I actually just threw that on the floor and didnt try to straighten it out for the picture.  It does lay flat when it is laid out properly!

My warp is just common 8/4 rug warp and the weft is yarn made from TShirts. 

Weaving takes practice and considerable knowledge of the process and materials and often new weavers assume that rag rugs will be a snap beginner project when they do require some experience to turn out well.

This is precisly why I am asking questions, but if this is not the correct forum for asking for help I will move on to somewhere else.  I am sorry if my questions are not the correct ones.  I am truely interested in learning a new art, one which I do not have a local friend to teach me.  I have the Rag Rug Handbook, but did not see anything in it explaining what to do when the rug runs uphill.

Thanks for your prompt reply, and I am sorry for my incompetence as a new weaver.

Jera

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 21:00

jlrendel

I actually just threw that on the floor and didnt try to straighten it out for the picture.  It does lay flat when it is laid out properly!

My warp is just common 8/4 rug warp and the weft is yarn made from TShirts. 

Weaving takes practice and considerable knowledge of the process and materials and often new weavers assume that rag rugs will be a snap beginner project when they do require some experience to turn out well.

This is precisly why I am asking questions, but if this is not the correct forum for asking for help I will move on to somewhere else.  I am sorry if my questions are not the correct ones.  I am truely interested in learning a new art, one which I do not have a local friend to teach me.  I have the Rag Rug Handbook, but did not see anything in it explaining what to do when the rug runs uphill.

Thanks for your prompt reply, and I am sorry for my incompetence as a new weaver.

Jera

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 21:03

jlrendel

O sorry, the other info you asked is what type of loom am I using.  My research has told me it is a Union 36 loom.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 00:55

r1mein54 (not verified)

Sara is correct. Personally I had some of the same problems when I first started learning to weave and the "bumps" and wavy weave I think comes from uneven warp tension. I realized if I did not make sure it was wound very flat but coned up on the warp beam that would alter weaving tension. Also if you have them tied off to the cloth beam and they seem equal - if you have any lumps of tied ends or any bumps, as you wind up the lumps and bumps transfer and change the tension on segments or individual warp yarn.
Thu, 01/26/2012 - 04:16

Vennui (not verified)

Looking at the picture these are my guesses. Looking at the edges I am guessing that you have different weights. Of weft. That might be part of the problem. How did you cut your materials ? Could the hump indicate. Bulky materials? Uneven warp could also be the trouble. I sectionaly. Warp I find that helps immensely with tension. . Edges are hard . I sometimes try to analyze what I do to to keep them even but I have come to realize it's in the touch. Keep weaving some day you will realize that suddenly it justs works.
Thu, 01/26/2012 - 13:30

Artistry

Just a note to encourage you to keep posting questions, when you can't find the answers in your resource materials. We've all been beginners and I can certainly understand the frustration of a project not turning out and not understanding why. You will find us a knowledgeable group and you maybe prompted with lots of questions, don't be disheartened, we're just trying to get to the bottom of it! There is a project page on this site where you can post you're finished work. Novices to experienced are welcome to do so. Lastly if there is a local guild near you that can be a tremendous learning place, with classes, library, and more experienced weavers. Good luck on your weaving endeavors!
Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:34

jlrendel

Hey all!  Thanks for the responses!

First I want to tell you that I unfortunately live in a less populated area than some and don't have any local clubs or guilds...I am doing this learning from books and online resources. So i really appreciate your responses!

I did do a sectional warp but did notice that when I warped as directed in my "union loom instruction manual" some of the thread from the next set of treads i added would pile on top of the ones I already put on.  Maybe I did that wrong  I want to try to explain how I tied on to my warp reel and maybe you can tell me if I did it wrong:

     I ran my threads through my "warp guide" and then tied them in a knot.  I then slipped the knot (half on one side of the peg, half on the other side) over the first peg for the width I needed (which was actually about the 4th peg in on each side).  I then wound my warp reel 50 times away from me (like in the manual).  I went to the other side of the reel and did the same, working my way to the center. 

     I am wondering if I tied them on to the reel incorrectly?  Some of the threads are caught up under other threads.

Do you feel this would create the uneven tension in the warp people are suggesting?  Also when I tie the warp onto the apron...how is the best way to ensure even tension (if I am tieing 24 strings together in 7 bunches...how do i make sure all 7 are tied with even tension?)  Any helpful advice?

Thanks so much for your willingness so far to help me along!

Jera

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:34

sally orgren

...was that the warp might be a *bit* more slack on this side. Do the last few inches on the right feel "softer" to you than the rest of the warp when under tension? If so, you may need to weight these warps separately. Hanging film canisters with pennies or washers off the back probably isn't going to do it for a rug. You'll need some plastic bottles with water, so you can adjust the weight on the bout(s) to make them equal to their buddies. (I assume you are weaving under pretty high tension?)

When you beat, you need to make sure to pull from the center of the beater, not one side. A related item to check, is the beater parallel to the castle and the front beam? (I am not familiar with the Union loom, but on my loom, I have several slots in which to position the beater. I have to make sure the beater is in the same slot of both sides to be parallel.) 

Since you mention the hump is in the same location on both projects, I am wondering if it is something with the way you are warping. Do you use a board, reel, or sectionally warp? 

It could also be something about your loom. Is the loom square? Are the warp and cloth beams resting solidly in position?

I would say based on your photo of your first project and the fact you are willing to ask questions, you are well on your way to honing your technique and completing your 100th project!

Keep posting your progress. Let us know what you try to remedy the problem. And when it comes time for warp #3, ask away and post photos of your steps, so maybe we can pinpoint the problem if it is coming from that stage in the process.

Sally

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:43

jlrendel

Actually you brought tears to my eyes with your encouragement!  Thanks so much and I will keep an eye out for all those things you mention. 

My beater seems as square as can be managed but as the loom is 120 some years old (or so I was told) I can imagine the loom itself is no longer square....this may be what is causing the problem. 

I cut the 2nd rug off last night and am tieing the ends today....I will post a picture, becuase it seems odd to me that I do not see the "bumps" now that I cut it off the loom....hmmmmm.....it's all so interesting to me I can't wait until I have been doing this so long I am the one posting advice instead of begging for it!

Thanks again!  Have a great day!

Jera

 

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 18:27

kerstinfroberg

and not seeing the "bump".

My old loom (about as old as yours) is a bit warped from bad storage. Therefore I have a strong band to get it more even, but still can't get the beater *exactly* parallell to the breast beam (the first picture here). But - guess what? I have used this loom for upwards of 35 years now, and I have never seen any "un-square-ness" of my cloth... and if I think there is some, I try to stretch the fabric crosswise a little. After wet finishing, I can see no problems. ("Wet finishing" means almost, but not quite, "wash" - see, for instance, this comment here on Weavo) In short: not-quite-parallell need not be a problem.

Good luck!

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 20:11

jlrendel

Hi, Thanks so much for sharing your experience with your old loom! I think mine would fit in the "not quite parallell, but pretty close" category as well.

I am posting a picture of my 2nd rug that I cut off last night!  The stripes are a bit "curved" but the area on the rug that is "up hill" while on the loom .... isn't.... up hill once cut off.  Very interesting....I think I will try washing this one and see if it messes it up.

 

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 15:55

Cat Brysch

I think you have gotten wonderful advice all the way around...I've been following, but have to jump in now!  My old Structo Artcraft floor loom is also old and a little "off" between the beater and the castle/breast beam.  All my fabric from the first to the last is about 1/4 inch off....but when you cut it off, it's juuuuuuuuuust fine, so don't worry too much.  I used to beat with both hands to 'force' the beater bar straight as it met the fell, but somewhere in the wisdom of years, I found that it really doesn't matter.  About your lumps/bumps in progress, I do think it's tension.  When I am tying on to the apron, I use rather high tension so I can firmly pat the warp 'flat-handed' to feel variations in tension from one section to another as I go.  Also I never, never tie up more than 1/2 inch of warp threads at a time.  Lastly, you can 'fine tune' your tension by while weaving in your header.  I do this by, about half way through a header, I weave in some VERY rough textured thread/yarn (usually old wool)...here's the steps.  I weave in 3 rows WITHOUT BEATING....yes, without beating...place them somewhat low in the shed (leave plenty of slack at the selvedges so there's no draw-in!!!) before changing sheds.  Next step, I change sheds one last time and then start slowly but firmly beating all three rows down together....this brings out little (and maybe big) bumps/loops of extra slack threads.  If you have no little loops, you did a great tie-on!  I see the weaving world has another adventurer and I applaude you!  Keep going!!! Thanks for the photo, too...be sure and put it in the projects page!

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 07:37

ruthmacgregor (not verified)

I'll jump in here with an encouraging, "Like everyone else said!"  You're doing very well with these first rugs -- keep going, and keep posting!

The "bumps" problem also looks like a tension problem to me, as do the curves in the stripes of your second rug.  Tension is something you'll be working on with every warp you weave.  One thing that books can describe (but not show) is a tactile way of checking your tension at the time that you tie onto the front apron -- Cat mentioned this, and it's the same thing I do:  after tying each (small) bundle of warps to the front, close your eyes (or look at the ceiling) and "pat" the warp with your hand.  You'll be able to feel if one section is too tight, or if another is a little slack.  Adjust the warp bundles as needed, then "pat" the warp, then adjust again.  Pat the warp one final time after weaving your header, just to triple-check.

I'm not a rug weaver, but I'd guess the curves in the stripes of the second rug come from a gradual change in the tension at the selvedges as the rug progresses.  Which leads me to ask:  do you use a temple while weaving?  It's not cheating -- and it really does help, especially when you're using a heavy weft.

In any case, keep weaving, and keep postiing -- and do put your nice rugs into the Projects pages!

Ruth

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:59

Cat Brysch

I forgot a couple of details about 'patting' the warp.  I used to tell my students to look away, too!  Thanks, Ruth, I forgot that....I just do it without thinking! Also, at the last checking after the header is in, use BOTH hands at the same time to have a rather high tension and pat firmly.  I think the brain uses this as a way to compare more definitively? Also, after the header is in, I press down on the header with an index finger or a knuckle and run it side to side along that header from selvedge to selvedge to check for the feeling of dips or weaknesses.  One last thing...I have been just assuming that, as you are tying on, you tie 1 or 2 knots on the right, 1 or 2 on the left, going back for forth toward the center, right?  This really helps with patting as you go and comparing and keeping control of the tie-on bar.  Happy Weaving!!!

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 16:43

jlrendel

Thanks everyone for all the encouragement and advice....I am heading over to the loom now to tie onto my apron (with my eyes closed) Wish me luck & Have a great Weekend!

Jera

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 17:50

Erica J

Jera,

I'm glad you were able to get expert help here! Weavolution and it's users are here to answer each other's questions and support each other. I'm so glad to see this is the experience you have had so far! I look forward to seeing your future works!

Hope the tieing on went well,

Erica

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:08

sally orgren

Jera,

True confession, I personally am not so good with the "pat the bunny" method of checking my warp tension, eyes open or closed, patting at the front of the castle or behind. (Even after several years of weaving, I would have get someone else to check my work satisified I thought I had it just right.)

I have since evolved my technique to tying small bouts (no more than 1") and then lashing these bouts to the rod in front with a slippery cord. I put on a bit of tension, so the warp has no slack, and then treadle a variety of pics, watching the lashing cord slide into position among the bouts. The knots will move up or down, depending on what they need to do to even out.

If I am still not satisfied, I can pull on the lashing string to even the tension on the bouts instead of retying individual knots. Or, a guild mate just showed me a method of lifting the bouts themselves to cause the lashing cord to reposition automatically. If I let the loom and materials do it automatically, it seems to get closer to evening out than I can do by individual patting and knotting.

Also, as Cat suggested, I weave three pics of some soft material — without beating — and when I pull the beater forward to create the fell line, any irregularities come forward with the packing material, and I have nearly perfect tension every time. (It's like MAGIC!) Plus, there is very little loom waste at the front of the loom with this method. (Usually 3" on most projects!)

Another really good skill you are developing from the get-go is assessing your work as each project comes off the loom. (Like I said, you are well on your way...)

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 02:17

jlrendel

Wow!  You guys ROCK!  Thanks to all of your advice I got up from the computer and went back to the loom with added confidence this time!

I tied on again (I admit I had a hard time closing my eyes) but I did tie much smaller bunches (12 threads instead of 24) I added some filler...as suggested... at the beginning... I watched my reel more closely....and the trump was I placed my loom on some gripping rug pieces.  I'm not sure what the magic was or if it was a combination of all of the above, but by watching how my loom "walked" and tieing on more precisely my rug did not run uphill this time! 

Yippee....I just have to post this picture as ya'll now have your hands in all three of my rugs and the progression is amazing!  I just love my newest rug and can't bear to put it on the floor . LOL

Thanks for all your help!  I am feeling prepared to have a go at my fourth rug now!

Thanks again, Jera

 

I made this one from my sons jeans (all missing knees of course)Blue Jean

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 05:44

Cat Brysch

about handwoven rugs and not wanting to put them on the floor...Well, you'll feel a LOT better about it if you walking on your rug....making sure you do it barefoot!!!!!  Your new rug is simply MARVELOUS!

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 09:28

ruthmacgregor (not verified)

Yayyy, Jera -- look at you!  Rug #4 is nice and straight, nice and flat, uses super colour progressions....  This is exciting.  You've been making leaps and bounds, right in front of our eyes!

It's wonderful.  Keep going.

Ruth

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 10:40

Artistry

I've been following along and all I can say is Good For You! Your rug is great!