Hi all, so what looms are you weaving on?

I'm currently working on a piece on the backstrap loom, one on an inkle loom (a pebbleweave yurt band), and I have a cut pile piece on my Mirrix tapestry loom.  I'm very interested in the variety of looms that can be used for these techniques.

Comments

Mon, 09/14/2009 - 19:42

aliced3786 (not verified)

 i am using a mirrix tapestry loom because it keeps a very high tension and has the shedding device which makes weaving much easier. I'm weaving at 12 knots per inch which is probably why its taking me so long but I really enjoy watching how the pattern developes and the pile is like velvet.

Mon, 09/14/2009 - 19:59

bolivian warmi

I am really interested to learn where or how you learned this technique. Did someone in your husband's family teach you? Do you have a lot of Iranian examples in your home?

Laverne

Mon, 09/14/2009 - 20:21

Virag (not verified)

That is awesome.  I'm at eight knots per inch and not terribly happy with the definition I'm getting.   What epi are you working at?

Mon, 09/14/2009 - 20:26

Sharonl (not verified)

I'm learning to use a rigid heddle backstrap loom at the moment. I've also got two inkle looms that I tablet weave with. I also tri loom. One is 7 foot the other 3 foot. I don't have any what I think of as modern shaft looms looms due to space issues and because I tend to be drawn to the more ancient traditional looms and techniques,

Mon, 09/14/2009 - 22:01

aliced3786 (not verified)

 I learned by first watching the Orlo Ducker VHS about 4 times. My problem was I couldn't find a loom that would maintain the tension. I tried a Beka rigid heddle, it was too loose, the I tried a Navajo loom but 400 ends was unmanageable. My son's gifted me the Mirrix Which is 32" wide made of metal and has good tensioning. It also has the capability of getting a sett as close as 22epi. I decided to start at 12epi because I wanted to finish this wall hanging someday.  My husband has a nephew who's father was a master carpet weaver in Iran but I don't seriously think I can aspire to that level, but who knows.  We do have some examples at home, one of my favorites is a pure silk rug in pink and cream, I believe the knots are around 125 per inch.  When we went to Egypt earlier this year we went to a carpet factory and saw these little children weaving knotted pile rugs so fast that you couldn't see their hands move!  Mostly I just love fiber especially wool and being able to make something that will be around a while. There are a couple of good books but I'm not home so I will look them up and let you know.

PS I lived in La Paz when I was 8, my Dad was in the army and we were stationed there, I would love to go back someday.

Alice

Mon, 09/14/2009 - 22:01

Virag (not verified)

I too am very interested in ancient looms.  Have you seen the free books on google books on the subject?  They discuss ancient Egyptian weaving techniques and looms if I remember correctly.

Mon, 09/14/2009 - 22:24

bolivian warmi

Thanks for that Alice. I wonder if the Orlo Ducker VHS is the same piece of video that Virag mentions on the other page. Is this Mirrix loom specifically for knotted pile rug making?

Mon, 09/14/2009 - 22:33

Sharonl (not verified)

Ohhh free books? I'll have to go investigate. Do I just type google books?

Tue, 09/15/2009 - 00:54

Virag (not verified)

Pretty much.  You go to Google and then google books. They have scanned in out of copywrite books.  It's a really cool resource.

Sun, 09/20/2009 - 20:40

lambspin (not verified)

 Duke's video used to come with plans to make a rug loom: are they not there anymore?

I have his looms, plus one made from the plans.  They are sturdy, and easy to make (in a woodworking relative sense: no really difficult joins). They can be made in small size, or large enough for a room size rug. 

The bigger loom that I have (made from his plans) is in storage until we finish adding on a room big enough to accommodate it! :)

Sun, 09/20/2009 - 22:46

Virag (not verified)

I believe that it is.  It's a very informative video.  The Mirrix looms are marketed for tapestry and beadweaving.  I actually got mine more then a decade ago when my dh and I were still in college.  It's metal and keeps the tension very well.

Sun, 09/20/2009 - 22:47

Virag (not verified)

The dvd I ordered didn't seem to have plans unless I missed then totally But he spent a great deal of time on the video explaining how to make the loom itself.  I think most reasonably handy folks could make a loom just from watching.  That's it...you must need one of those Central Asia grand gathering yurts...the ones that are two stories:>.    More room for stash and looms:>.

Mon, 09/21/2009 - 01:05

Sara von Tresckow

 I'm using a horizontal CM loom just because it is free at the moment. It works, but beating can be awkward. The tension is very good.

Vertical looms probably facilitate a firm beat somewhat better.

My shop carries Noreen Roberts - "How to Make an Oriental Rug" ($27 plus shipping) and we also have full sized plans for the 17" rug loom in her book that can be expanded to a larger format ($10 plus shipping). We have had good feedback from the people who have built the loom.

www.woolgatherers.com

 

Mon, 09/21/2009 - 14:38

lambspin (not verified)

 Hmmm. Well, it may not be a part of the package anymore: the original video had an insert with loom plans.  

The loom is a simple frame, very sturdy, upright, with a heddle bar.  The loom leans against a wall, so is not suitable for the yurt (darn!). Duke altered his warping methods in the years following the production of the video (now DVD).  I have not actually looked a the thing in 10 years so I can't say exactly how. I may have to bust out the video and re-play it.  (As I recall it was slow going: Duke is a somewhat taciturn fellow, and that comes across on camera :).

I prefer upright looms for the techniques I am doing, mostly because a horizontal loom requires bending over the work, and I can't judge pile depth reaching out over the web.

Rigid heddle looms work fine for small projects in pile, soumak, twining, etc, when used in a vertical orientation: I lean them against a counter-height table and sit on an adjustable height chair.  

 

 

Mon, 09/21/2009 - 15:02

bolivian warmi

I am very pleased to hear that I may be able to use my rigid heddle loom to try a small pile project. I bought an 80cm RH loom in May to see if I could use it to teach some of the pick up patterning that I do on my backstrap loom.

i am also very interested in doing weft twining-I have a superb book on Chilkat balnkets by Cheryl Samuel. Is that the kind of twining you mean?

Mon, 09/21/2009 - 17:43

lambspin (not verified)

 Yes, same kind of twining, although Chilkat (and Maori) twining seems to be done on warps that are not stationary, and I do twining on taut warps.  I think some North African twining is done on groups of unbound warps, but off-hand I cannot find a photo of that. 

The bag in my avatar photo (which I guess I should upload as a project :) is silk knotted pile, done on a rigid heddle loom.  It is about 7" square: I used a 15 inch loom (@40cm?).

I have been using rigid heddle for pickup too although, depending on sett, it is not as easy as using an inkle or floor loom. But there are lots of newer weavers who are familiar with the rigid heddle loom, and I prefer to encourage them with options, rather than discourage them with daunting equipment they have neither the $$ nor the time and space for :).  

 

Mon, 09/21/2009 - 18:01

bolivian warmi

Which techniques does your new book deal with?

Mon, 09/21/2009 - 18:11

lambspin (not verified)

 Hah! Thanks for asking:

plain weave (as in how to use a rigid heddle loom for fabric on one and two heddles).

pickup patterns in bands (not complementary like your South American method of weaving, but supplementary, like Northern European or Southwestern US/Mexico).

Weft twining, soumak, warp twining (cardweaving), and knotted pile.

I assume the buyer has no weaving knowledge, so it's basic, but also introduces some things that are not as common to find in weaving books these days (like pile. pickup  and soumak) .  

I get my advance copy soon (bounce, bounce) :)

Sara

 

Mon, 09/21/2009 - 18:23

bolivian warmi

Wow, I had no idea you were covering so much. I got the impression that it was all about cut pile.(although this is something that I REALLY want to learn).  I do some supplementary warp weaves too but have been dying to do some of the Finnish patterns I have seen around.    Excuse me while I toddle off and go pre order your book. :-)  

Wed, 09/23/2009 - 13:31

Sara von Tresckow

 In addition to loom type, the tools used are of some importance.

After some creative digging, I was able to purchase a basic set of pile weaving tools - a hook knife, a metal beater weighing about a pound, and some pile cutting shears - probably origin Iran.

I'm now working on a new design to implement these - my first piece is pictured under my projects.

 

Wed, 09/23/2009 - 13:38

bolivian warmi

This is very helpful Sara, thank you. Yes, ok I can do this on my rigid heddle loom but what about these tools? Where in the world am I going to get these? Does the book you carry discuss tools in detail? Perhaps I can have something made here. Lucky find! Your set of tools looks just lovely.

Laverne

Wed, 09/23/2009 - 13:49

Sara von Tresckow

 No, these tools are not sold by weaving supply and not from book authors.

These are the REAL deal - what comprises a set of tools in the Middle East to enable a person to weave rugs. With these, I could possibly seek employment in an establishment making rugs for commerce. Or, if skilled enough, look for work restoring old carpets.

It took me some searching to get these and sometimes you don't broadcast everything - to find tools like this, look in places where knotted pile carpets are also found.

The hook can be replaced with fingers and a paring knife or snipping scissors and the shears can be any with a good sharp blade - not Fiskars, but good quality dressmaker shears, though the handles turned 90 degrees as with mine is helpful.

The heavy beater is a bit of a problem. I did my first piece with lightweight wooden beaters meant for Hopi sash weaving (narrow pieces) and had to use quite a bit of muscle to get the knots beaten down as firmly as they should have. And my source at first didn't think one could be found, but it showed up anyway.

Wed, 09/23/2009 - 14:30

Caroline (not verified)

In some of the Youtube videos, the carpet weavers sit on their pile carpets and use good old Aussie sheep shearing shears. The way they flash them around would scare the average shearer silly, but they do an amazing job on the carpets. I have seen nothing close to looking like the hook that is used - its a vicious piece of metal and would be considered a deadly weapon in most western countries, with a very curved blade, and some of the tapestry beaters look very like paddle combs for combing fleece. The tines are at 90 degrees to the handle so they use them with a downward movement into the pile with the tines poking through to the back of the warp.

It looks a bit too much like a blood sport for comfort, particularly when the little kids are running around, but I should think it would be possible to find slightly safer alternatives that while not being quite as efficient, wouldn't upset Homeland Security when passing through airports.

Wed, 09/23/2009 - 15:24

lambspin (not verified)

Noreen Roberts sells tools when she can get them : www.ghiordes.co.uk

You can adjust to using tools that are more readily available: I use thread nippers in place of the hook knife.

I was taught to use pile trimming scissors, but since I teach pile weaving, I had to find an alternative for people who are not interested in investing $50+ for tools before they even start to learn the technique.  The thread nippers serve both to trim the pile yarn, and make the new row even with the previous rows. 

One tool: two functions, and not hard to find or pricey. 

I also make my own beaters: Duke had a plan in the video for these too: I wonder that none of these plans are in the DVD anymore. 

I have 3 or four pair of pile trimming scissors, and never even use them anymore!

Wed, 09/23/2009 - 15:21

lambspin (not verified)

 I wish we had a *funny* button to click :)

Wed, 09/23/2009 - 15:37

bolivian warmi

Yes, Caroline totally cracks me up!

Okay, thread nippers, sheep shearing shears...you have both given me something to work on and a site to explore. Thank you so much. Although I do love traditional tools. Once I have tried the technique and maybe after many years of experience I shall go on a traditonal tool hunt like Sara did. Now to get the books and video.

Wed, 09/23/2009 - 16:00

lambspin (not verified)

 

Here are some quick photos of some of the tools I have found.  Some are Duke's, some are from Noreen Roberts, some were collected in Turkey, and many I made or re-purposed from standard tools.  You can see the nippers in the bottom photo, and the beaters with straight tines either Duke made or I did (except the traditional daftoon).  The angled-tine beaters I find stress the warps (abrade them) so I do not use them.  I use a lighterweight beater for several rows, then the heavy beater to pack in. 

The little silver angled scissors are Ghinger machine embroidery scissors: the nippers are also Ghingers.  I use the nippers and small beater the most, the trim scissors and big beater rarely (the big beater is for rugs: I make bags mostly). The big scissors are for pile trimming, the smaller offset scissors are for final trimming (after the rug is washed). 

Wed, 09/23/2009 - 15:57

Sara von Tresckow

 Yes, Noreen occasionally sells them, but is not a mail order source that has lots of them in stock.

I'm the US distributor for her book and have just ordered a new shipment, and have several copies still available.

My husband has also produced full sized plans for the 17" demo loom in her book "How to Weave an Oriental Rug".

Both are listed on our web site - link to the book is on the main page.

While saving money for new weavers is admirable, may I politely ask just what is so terrible about picturing the correct tools for weaving cut pile so that appropriate substitutions can be made if necessary? When we hear of woodworkers who do good work, they don't buy their tools at Harbor Freight. Yet, when weavers get excited, any old thing is used and sometimes producing less than stellar results.

My personal experience is that the beating is crucial to success in this task - and having pile cutting shears that are sharp and accurate to produce a good surface.

 

Wed, 09/23/2009 - 16:22

lambspin (not verified)

 Please don't take my tools suggestions as criticism of yours.  I have and use traditional tools too. 

Tools are always personal, and improvements are not necessarily a bad thing. I have found I prefer straight tines for beating.  I use the nippers because I have found it easier to cut once, than to cut *and* trim.

Handmade tools, and plans for tools (like the loom plans you sell) do not mean a *Harbor Freight* cutting of corners or quality. 

I don't believe the tools I use produce *less than stellar results*.  I have over 10 years of experience doing cut pile, and in the process I have learned a few things. 

Wed, 09/23/2009 - 16:36

bolivian warmi

Thank you! To be honest I didn't even know what thread nippers were when you mentioned them. This is great!

Thu, 09/24/2009 - 11:20

Virag (not verified)

These are great.  Thank you for getting them together and posting them:>

Thu, 09/24/2009 - 12:30

Caroline (not verified)

Sara! Love the torture chamber! Do you realise I'd be the envy of every outlaw biker for miles around if I had even half that lot!  The police would think I was an armourer for the Hells Angels!

Seriously, thats a formidable collection, and they probably all do slightly different things. And to think I can't even find someone who sells an Ashford tapestry fork locally! I have to improvise, so shall definitely be studying that for weeks to come. Thank you for posting it.

Thu, 09/24/2009 - 12:58

Virag (not verified)

I got to try a metal beater and the scissors over the summer in a short class.  It was really neat:>.

Thu, 09/24/2009 - 13:01

Virag (not verified)

www.spanishpeacock.com has a really nice, nice, nice tapestry fork/beater that they produce.  Also you may be able to pick the wood you want.  It has a point on the other end and ergonomically fits in the hand.  I've got it on my wish list for this year:>:>:>   I'd also love a pair of the flat scissors.  I got to use some this summer and it was a real convenience item:>.  Still, I wonder what tools they were using 1000 yrs ago and 2000 yrs ago?

Thu, 09/24/2009 - 13:38

Caroline (not verified)

I've seen the beautiful spindles and tools at Spanish Peacock, and a few other places, and I have a wish list too. My moan is the fact that I live just across the water from Ashford, in Australia, and I can't find an online Aussie store that sells a tapestry fork! They do sell Ashford tapestry looms though. And they wonder why people spend their money overseas! I got my belt shuttles from Villagespinweave, because they are not available here in Oz..

I saw a couple of Time Team shows from the UK where they had excavated weaving tools used by the Picts, and most of their implements were shaped stones or bones. However the archeologists did assume that  loom weights were spindle whorls so I wonder how much gets identified incorrectly. What did they find at Catul Hayek ( spelling?)?

Thu, 09/24/2009 - 15:01

Virag (not verified)

I'd have to go back and look but I "think" they found murals painted in a style that suggested they were designs taken from rugs either woven or felted.  There's also a nice website about Catul Hayek.  I am currently drooling over one of the rugs found in the Scythian kurgans and thinking...hmmm....I bet they used their fingers and a knife.  I don't think I've ever seen scissors that early.  I'd Love to have a pair of the flat scissors if I could find some that weren't as heavy as the ones I used this summer.  I'm going to go look up Villagespinweave now:>.

Tue, 10/06/2009 - 20:53

jenadina (not verified)

I find it really surprising that none of your shops have offered to order what you want for you! It's not like it can't be done, especially if you commit to buying it!

Tue, 10/06/2009 - 22:58

Caroline (not verified)

I end up buying overseas because I then get the choice, and the delivery is quicker - believe it or not. As for ordering something in - I suspect Ashford has a minimum order as I have had to wait months for special orders that they didn't have in stock. Its not just Ashford - this is standard practice over here so you learn to work around it. It does have its advantages - things are generally cheaper if you do the overseas ordering yourself! Even with postage. I just have to keep an eye out for the weight as that can get expensive, but there is always sea-mail.

Sun, 10/18/2009 - 19:10

bolivian warmi

I had that same problem with Ashford supplier when I was in Sydney. I wanted an extra heddle for my RH and they wouldn't order it until they had a enough items to make the order worthwhile. Whereas in the US, a store I was emailing to said that they could get a ''one-of'' item in in one business day.

Wed, 02/21/2018 - 04:54

msthimble

Dear Lambspin,

Thank you so much for this information.  I'm preparing a plain weave variations program for my guild, I wanted to include a pile weave,  Since our group is loom controlled weavers, i rarely see anyone doing manual techniques.  I thought doing some hand knotting would be a good challenge and wanted to "authenticate" the experience by providing a hook knife for everyone to try.  Many thanks!