I warp BTF and keep having trouble with transfering my warp from the board to my loom. Currently after i'm measured, i put in my cross ties and chokes,then slide my lease sticks through the cross while it is still on the board. I then slip it off the board and lay it out across my bed. I then go and measure out the next chain and repeat the process. when all my chains are through the lease sticks I run my apron rod through and attach it to my beam. Today I made 6 chains of 50 ends. My problem is this; when i go to run the apron rod through the ends, they are all twisted and snarled. I end up not being able to locate the ends to feed the apron rod through.

Comments

Sat, 09/07/2013 - 00:27

debmcclintock

Put the scissors down! Put some tension on those chains somehow. Tension solves many warp path problems. If you've tied off your cross applying tension isn't a problem. Also consider the possibility that you flipped one of your chains and put it on the lease stick the wrong way. Trust me, if you find a twisted chain cross you'll see how you did it. Use some other sticks to transfer the warp chains that aren't flipped and correct the couple that are. With tension and then checking your cross placement on the leade sticks you should see the apron rod path.
Sat, 09/07/2013 - 01:22

laurafry

I find that smaller chains tend to twist more and may cause issues as Deb has mentioned.  I typically wind warp chains of 8 inches or more, although that may be too much for you to handle on your own.  :(

The end loop of the warp chain should be able to be found by going to the lease stick.  If you follow the loop from the stick to the end, it should be there....

I don't think I have a photo - will look to see - pictures really do speak volumes.  :)

cheers,

Laura

Sat, 09/07/2013 - 07:56

kerstinfroberg

Or: get another rod (or a piece of string, or...). Put that through your apron rod loop at the same time as you insert the lease sticks.

Sat, 09/07/2013 - 10:46

ReedGuy

I always tie a thread at the loop, at the cross and others to mark where the lease sticks on either side of the cross, with the cross being near the loop end that goes on the tie rod of your warp beam. Also add the ties along the length of the chain before taking it off the warp mill or board. With those loops and cross ties in place it should be easy to tell whether the next chain is being added properly. It may look messy especially if tied up tight, but trust me everything is in place. Placing that thread just before the cross keeps one half of the ends just before the cross separated so it's not a mess. I leave those ties on until I have all the chains on and have inspected things. :) Notice the color indicates the return path of the warp, so you are making a tie for each path and tying on top both times. Can't go wrong. ;)

The picture below is to show where to tie when on the warp mill/board. The lease sticks and tie rod lables are for placement when over by the loom. The tie at the cross is threaded through the warp, not bound around it, unlike the other ties. Some folks use this thread as a count thread and undulate it through, say 40 ends, to keep track of their warping progress.

'The Big Book of Weaving' is a valuable resource to explain the warping process.

Sat, 09/07/2013 - 14:02

crofter

hi i had a simlar problem sugest change your boyt size to 6 inch 

if your warp is less than 12 inch your bouts = half the warp size

6 inch is the largest size my frame will take

i use wool singles scottish tweed wool heberdies wool

Sat, 09/07/2013 - 14:21

sequel (not verified)

I have a student who winds her warps for FTB at home on her reel.  When whe brings them in to mount on the raddle the same twisting thing happens.  She puts a threading cross at one end and a counting string at the other, but somehow that creates a twist in the warp.  I'm guessing it's in the way the warp travels around the reel.  We're working on installing crosses for both ends for her reel, so she can make a gang cross for the raddle and a threading cross at the other end. 

Sat, 09/07/2013 - 20:57

ReedGuy

When I make the cross and make the turn over the last peg my palm goes from facing down, to facing up. If you twist the warp on the end peg(s) your going to have a mess. And on the return peg on the other end your palm is up, so as you pass over the turn peg to return, your palm is now facing down again. If your doing repetitive stripes, twisting at the turn pegs creates a mirror effect in your warp if you twist, telling you it is wrong. Measuring the warp should be a fluid hand motion. If not, your moving past the pegs wrong. The picture I posted does not reflect this explanation. Because I go over, under and over those pegs .

Sat, 09/07/2013 - 23:13

laurafry

I really wish I was close enough to come and see what you are doing - but since that's not possible....

So, is your warping board mounted on the wall or are you using it flat on a table?  I'm thinking it might be easier for you to tie off the cross if the board is flat.  Can you tie a *tight* choke tie?  I'm going to upload a photo at the end of this post but since I can't figure out how to put text below it, I'll do the text first and then the picture.

A tight choke tie helps to prevent the threads from moving and tangling as you are getting the warp onto the lease sticks and affixed to the warp beam.  I also use a 'fat' yarn of contrasting colour to make the ties easier to see and to tie/remove. 

Since you are working with just one arm, I'm thinking that keeping your warp bouts smaller than I do might be preferable, but to me 50 ends seems like an invitation for the bouts to twist round each other and then tangle.  I"m not sure how many inches 50 ends would be for you, but you might try a few more than that - IF you can manage a tight choke tie to keep things from moving around on you.

Rather than try to wrangle the lease sticks into the warp while it is still on the board, I suggest you wind all your chains first, then insert the sticks after you have laid the chains out on your bed.  Once all the chains are on the lease sticks and the sticks secured, check to make sure none of them are twisted, then the ties can be removed.

Personally I tie the four 'arms' of the X, not around the waist.  I find that tying the waist of the X compresses the threads together and makes it more difficult to get the correct thread in it's order at the next stage.  But that is something you would have to judge for yourself.

The other thing I do is begin and end my yarns at the end furthest away from the cross so that there are only loops at the end of the warp chain that goes round the apron rod.

Feel free to PM or email me with questions.  I will do the best I can to try and help.  :)

warping board

 

 

Sat, 09/07/2013 - 23:40

ken

Hello to All,

I want to thank each and eveyone of you for giving me input and advice regarding this problem that I'm having. I am continually reading and re-reading each post and thinking each one through and if those ideas would be workable in my situation;so if you don't get a personal response from me please don't feel i'm being stand-offish. I truly appreciate all your help.

Ken

Sun, 09/08/2013 - 15:10

kerstinfroberg

Ken, I re-read your original question, and now I think I may have misunderstood something.

You write: "I warp BTF [...]"  That means you wind the warp onto the warp beam before threading and sleying, yes?

"[...] i put in my cross ties and chokes,then slide my lease sticks through the cross [...] next chain and repeat the process. when all my chains are through the lease sticks I run my apron rod through and attach it to my beam.  [...]  run the apron rod through the ends, they are all twisted and snarled. [...]"

They way I get my warps onto the beam is to pre-sly (in a reed) before beaming, but I think it would work the same if you are using a raddle. Anyway - the end loop at the lease sticks is the loop that you should use. And that loop is at the ("end-most") lease stick. Thus you could just follow the path of the "end-most" lease stick...

(This picture comes from a blog-post I did about warping - here it is.)

 

If I have completely misunderstood your problem, I apologize!

Mon, 09/09/2013 - 02:42

sandra.eberhar…

When you chain your warp, if you alternate left and right hands, you don't get a twisted chain.

Mon, 09/09/2013 - 04:27

laurafry

I don't actually chain my warp, just drop it into a box.  :)

cheers,

Laura

Mon, 09/09/2013 - 08:23

ReedGuy

The OP only has one hand. Done properly, there is no twisting or alternating involved. I would want the board on a wall so I have more freedom to move my whole body as I wind. I also don't tie the warp into chains, but I do tie the warp every so many feet while on the mill. As I wind a bout I take it right to the tie on rod before measuring off the next bout. And I only use one lease, since the warp is wound onto the warp roller and the lenght of ends I have left is enough to go through the heddles and then the reed to be knotted in bunches to tie on.

Just some ideas I guess. Everyone is going to do it the way they want. ;)

Mon, 09/09/2013 - 15:14

Sara von Tresckow

After reading the first post, it would seem to me that the only thing this weaver should consider doing differently is to put the tieon stick through the loops at the same time the lease sticks are inserted - that would hold all the loops as wound until beaming on. Also make sure that none of the crosses are twisted in the lease sticks.