This ad just popped up in the local classifieds.  Its for a Toika loom and claims it has 12-shafts.  After comparing photos, I believe its a Jaana model, and I'm skeptical that 12 shafts are installed. 

Some of you know I seem to endlessly consider purchasing another loom.  I have only ever used Schacht looms, and do have an itch for (a) more shafts and (b) to try a non-jack loom.  This is countermarche. I yearn for more shafts.

It is not a screaming deal, a new Toika Jaana with 8 harnesses is around $3000, and they are asking $2000.  I am thinking I will try to see ths loom.  I'd love to hear if you know about this loom, and what I should look for if I go see it.  thanks.

Comments

Sun, 10/16/2016 - 18:04

Sara von Tresckow

The loom, as pictured, is  Jaana with 4 shafts mounted, in good working condition.

That said, Toika advertises the model with 4 or 8 shafts/treadles. The 80cm (32") weaving width loom lists as total width 46" and the 100cm (40") weaving width says total width is 53".

I'd definitely take a look and take a measuring tape with me to clarify just what is being offered. There may be 12 shafts and treadles there - BUT... the loom does not have enough depth to mount 12 shafts without putting an extension on the back beam. Not hard to do, but it is necessary so the warp threads have room to make a decent shed. If it is 100cm weaving width, 12 treadles might work, but the 80cm is definitely too narrow - if the treadles are mounted too close to the side frames, it makes it an awkward loom to operate. On the other hand, extra shaft frames make it easily possible to make extra "harnesses" - groups of shaft sticks set up for some special project, heddle type, etc.

This loom is shorter than the Liisa or Eeva so if you are a tall person, also check the "fit" to your body.

Otherwise, it is a very nice loom.

Sun, 10/16/2016 - 21:20

Queezle

I was able to get in touch with the seller.  She said a weaving teacher told her to remove the extra 8 shafts, and she used it as a 4-shaft loom.  She said she still has all the parts that came off. 

This one has an underslung beater, but the web site says it could have a hanging beater.  This is another thing for me to explore.

Your advice to bring a tape measure is great.  I understand the loom is assembled and in working condition, and am hoping to also try it out.

I do not NEED an extra loom.  But am tempted.  I think the ask is fairly high, if anyone wanted to suggest what a fair price, I'd love to hear it.  No word on what comes with the loom other than a bench that is too high.

Happily, I am a short person Smile

Mon, 10/17/2016 - 11:48

Queezle

I visited and saw this loom today.  There certainly are all the parts for this to be a 12-harness loom, and I took careful measurements.  But right now it isn't working, you cannot really get a shed with it.  There is something not correct with how it is hooked up, and for me to purchase, it would have to cost quite a bit less for a loom that needs work to get going.  It is also a total of 46 inches wide, so (thank you Sarah) not really suitable for 12 shafts.  Nevertheless, it was interesting to see this cute loom, and to meet the nice person selling it, but I do not think its the one for me. 

Mon, 10/17/2016 - 12:58

Dawn McCarthy

Toika looms are very good, however remember that more shafts is not necessarily the be all end all (I just rid of my 16 shaft back to an 8 shaft).  With CM looms remember - more shafts = lots more tie ups! 

Have you considered a Glimakra used? or if you want something a little more compact the Oxaback Lilla is an amazing CM loom! (Sara V sells them) they are cost effective and a dream to weave on.

Dawn

 

Mon, 10/17/2016 - 15:14

barleycorn

 Hi, I've been following along and wanted to add that I think overhead beaters are so much better but that is only my opinion. To me it's physically easier and I find it easier to adjust your beat from light lace to rugs. I would buy an 8 harness loom with an overhead beater any day over a 12 harness with an underslung beater.

Fri, 03/31/2017 - 01:44

WeaverKaren

Toika also sells the Jaana with their 16 shaft computer control. Do you know anything about the computer Jaana -- is it worth considering? Jaana has a depth of 46.8" and height of 51", so it is very appealing where space is limited. Thank you.
Fri, 03/31/2017 - 03:01

Queezle

I didn't purchase the Jaana. Something inside me was not comfortable with it, so I decided to listen to that inner voice. But I am still on the hunt for the right loom.
Fri, 03/31/2017 - 14:05

sandra.eberhar…

One other thing to consider is the wear and tear on your knees and hips from lifting all those steel heddles. CM and CB looms take a lot less effort to treadle. I agree that $2000 is way too much for a loom that "could" have 12 shafts, but only 4 are operational, and not well at that.

Sat, 04/01/2017 - 19:19

WeaverKaren

Thank you, Queezle and Big White Sofa Dog, for your replies. I'm sorry that my 3/30/17 post (#6 above) wasn't clearer. I'm hoping someone has information about Jaana looms that Toika sells with 16 shaft computer control. The Toika computer control, with just a pedal to press with one foot or hand, and zero stress on knees or hips, sounds very appealing (I have a knee problem). I could find space for a Jaana in my home, but it would be hard to fit a larger loom like the Eeva or Liisa.

Sara von Tresckow posted a concern (#1 above) that the depth of a Toika Jaana loom may be inadequate for a 12 shaft, 12 treadle loom. Since I'm not familiar with the workings of CM looms and how they may be affected by computer control, I wonder if Sara's concerns mean that a new, computerized Jaana will have problems and should not be considered? 

Thank you.

Sat, 04/01/2017 - 20:32

Sara von Tresckow

Just found this. I have an old Lilqvist small footprint countermarche (about 45.5" deep unmodified) that is very similar to the Varpa Karelia or the Toika Jaana. There is now a 16 shaft Toika dobby mounted. It worked on the loom as built, but I felt that there was not enough elasticity in the exposed warp to really let the shafts move with gravity as would be on the deeper Eeva model. My husband got some birch wood and made square donuts that screw into the back of the loom (IKEA knockdown bolts) and extend the frame by a good foot - just measured - total depth 58". It performs better that way. If I ever take it back to its original state for a small home, I can simply unscrew those donuts. ANY loom frame can easily be extended. We have a small one on the Julia in the store. You are merely extending the back beam and if space is limited, removable or folding parts are always possible.
Sat, 04/01/2017 - 21:13

WeaverKaren

Hi Sara, thank you for your reply. Do I understand correctly that you felt 16 shafts could not move well on Lilqvist before you extended it? Did the shafts stick? Do you recall whether you were able to get an adequate shed with the Toika dobby on the Lilqvist before you extended it? If the Jaana is extended, its footprint moves into the range of the Eeva (60" deep) or Liisa (53.5" deep)...

Sat, 04/01/2017 - 21:59

Sara von Tresckow

With wool and cotton warps that weren't tightly stretched, the loom worked fine. However, with linen or any other tight warp, the shafts didn't sink "freely" and they are sinking by gravity against the warp elasticity. Yes, to get a really nice experience with the Toika dobby you should consider the depth of the Standard or the Eeva, though there ARE ways to make that extension only temporary - that is, the extension comes off easily or folds when not weaving on it so the loom can be pushed against a wall.