I have 2 AVL looms and like all weavers I have been interested in getting the best looking selvedges that I can. Due to many design peculiarities of the AVL loom tensioning and cloth advance system I have had more than a few difficulties getting consistent selvedges. I weave production items that are "completed" on the loom. It is important to me to have good looking borders. I normally put on a basketweave selvedge and sometimes I exploit the selvedge as a design element. Heh, why not? So in my quest I decided to order rotary temples that are made by Fireside Looms. I ordered two rails, one for my 60" dobby and one for my 40", and one set of the temples. The system is made for their looms but they do work on the AVL. I was super impressed with the quality of their product, the instructions, timely delivery, and packaging. If you are considering these temples for another loom, you should talk to them. If you are going to put them on an AVL you can message me because there are a few caveats. If I were a rug weaver and had to mess with the traditional adjustable wood or metal temple I would be very frustrated. SLOW! and yes, ... I have done the paperclip and weight method. The rotary temple rolls with your cloth. As you advance the warp the temples keep the width of the warp where you want it. To see more, + photos, my blog: mmsooshandweaving.blogspot.com.

Comments

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 20:46

Queezle

I've considered getting a temple, but I know I would not have the patience to readjust every few inches.  Has anyone used these on the Schacht mighty wolf or floor loom?

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 21:05

MMs-and-OOs-Ha…

They make a very nice floor loom, not a dobby. Email them. http://www.firesidelooms.com
Tue, 11/26/2013 - 22:04

Artistry

MM' and OO's - Han I looked at the Fireside Rotary temple, looks really nice. I have an AVL too. For the AVL, It appears that the mounting/ temple would cut into some of the weaving area, creating a smaller " sweet spot" so to speak. Does this shorten your weaving span a couple of inches? Or is it not bothersome at all? Cathie
Tue, 11/26/2013 - 22:09

mneligh

Has anyone tried this on a B-type Macomber?  The Macomber is where I weave my rugs and wide textiles.  Not having to move a temple would certainly speed things up!

I don't think I would use one on my Baby Wolf because it looks like it would prevent its folding fully and portability is the main need on that loom.  Also, I've never had significant drawing-in on that loom due to its narrow width.  There might be enough space to fold a Mighty Wolf with one installed, but I would study the web page and carefully measure the space available on the folded loom before buying.

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 03:22

MMs-and-OOs-Ha…

The rail is connected to the loom in the front of the sandpaper beam. The bumpers land in a different place. They are closer to the heddle frame. OK, the AVL "sweet spot" is supposed to be where the beater is perpendicular to the floor. AVL has the bumpers on the front beam support and this is not where the fell line should be. It probably doesn't matter a lot when you are not using the pick advance. Some weavers weave very close to the heddles, only enough of a shed to throw the shuttle. Sometimes they do this because the selvedges are collapsing. The farther away from the back beam you weave your fell line, the less tension on the selvedges. To compensate for crappy selvedge tension some weavers also crank up warp tension making their weaving tiresome. It does matter where the fell line is for the auto-advance. AVL designed the pick advance to have the fell line on the bumpers on the front beam support. This causes horrible problems with the auto-pick advance if you want to weave in the "sweet spot". If you have the bumpers on the front support and the fell line is there, which is where they designed all the pick advance wheels and ratios, if you want to "unweave", good the heck luck! It never was In that position on any of the looms I saw in Jim Ahren's home. I weave on the "sweet spot" and use the pick advance to keep the warp moving and I don't pay attention to getting the pick advancement exact. I will advance my warp every 1/2" no matter what. For me the temples and the rail are not bothersome. The temples are there but they don't interfere at all with how I throw the shuttle. My fell is hovering around the "sweet spot" and the temples are keeping the cloth spread and I can reduce my weaving tension.
Wed, 11/27/2013 - 16:24

Artistry

Thank You! I don't have the pick advance. I weave where It feels comfortable, I'm getting a clean shed and advancing , as you say frequently. I feel confident in this product after what you have said and having looked at it on the website. Thanks for the first hand write up!

Cathie

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 17:43

MMs-and-OOs-Ha…

Since you're an AVL owner I'll give you the installation caveats if you buy the temples. The cloth support that holds the sandpaper beam on the weaver's right is not removeable. It is well-glued and there is a metal pin in it. The wood screws that are supplied by Fireside clear it but if you make more than a pilot hole to accomodate the screw you'll hit it. Just mark your drill bit. The right hand support has the minimum clearence for the 3" bracket + 1/4" or so. As a consequence most drills are too fat to do the pilot hole and attach the lower bracket screw. You'll need to borrow a flexible extension. The wood is hard so you'd be tasked to use a hand drill. All the measurements supplied by Fireside to place the rails are correct. The temples slightly grab and lift the woven cloth. I think you said you had a 48" PDL. On my 40" FDL I have different sized front beam supports so the beater bumpers and rail offset did not clear the wooden flanges of the temples. I just installed some flatter bumpers on my beater to add more clearence. The beater will never touch the temples now. I think if you have a 48" you have the same supports as my 60", but be sure to check. As an aside, opinions on fell location, http://talkingaboutweaving.blogspot.com/2008/09/where-is-my-fell.html. the rotary temple takes away many of the problems of keeping your fell line closer to the beater, being "in the zone". Weavers get taught certain ways and they have a tendency to stick with what has worked for them because making an error in the process of warping is not always fixable and takes a long time to undo. I think all weavers could profit by improving their technique. Peggy Ostercamp's weaving tips are awesome. Pacific Basin was awesome!
Wed, 11/27/2013 - 22:02

kerstinfroberg

while not currently interested in a rotary temple, I havea question: you write "cloth support that holds the sandpaper beam on the weaver's right is not removeable". I have a 60" PDL from (I think) '99, and I take the right-hand sandpaper beam support off all the time, for taking the beam out for threading. (I have the auto-advance, which makes the left-side beam support inconvenient, if not impossible, to remove)

Do you think it has to do with the age of the loom - or am I missing your point entirely? (English is not my primary language, so the problem may lie in that...)

Kerstin in Sweden

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 22:18

Artistry

Thank you for you comments. I am out of town until Monday so I can't get down to my studio and look at the parts you're talking about. Like Kerstin, my AVL is about the same age, but no auto advance, and I lift the beam out to thread . However your instructions are so explicit I'm sure I'll figure it out easily. Thank you for taking the time! Cathie
Wed, 11/27/2013 - 22:43

MMs-and-OOs-Ha…

Well maybe they changed it. My 60" PDL is late 70's. My 40" FDL is mid-80's. On the weaver's right, as seated on the bench, the front sandpaper support is glued and pinned. On the weaver's left the support on the PDL gets one bolt removed and slides on a pin. The whole piece comes off. On the FDL, the left side is bolted and I don't remember a pin, probably has one. I only took the beam off to install the front support with the bearing for the auto-pick advance on the FDL. They might have changed the arrangement because of the auto-pick advance. I can see it would be a pain removing the beam. I never take my sandpaper beam out to thread for what it is worth.
Thu, 11/28/2013 - 14:37

sandra.eberhar…

I have one on my barn frame loom and like it a lot.  This loom has a lot of space between the breast beam and heddles, and it doesn't reduce the sweet spot.  I'm installing one on a small TOTT jack loom, and the reduction of the sweet spot is much more important.  I am installing the rail right next to the breast beam, which means I have to take some of the wood off one side of the wooden mandrel holder.


Thu, 11/28/2013 - 15:38

MMs-and-OOs-Ha…

I have some serious doubts about the weave structure I picked for 35 yards of scarves but I am happy to report that my sample is looking good. The selvedges do look very even. I wasn't mindful about warping one of the sections which unfortunately includes the left hand selvedge. Weirdly that selvedge looks better than the other one. I also didn't do the offset for my end feed shuttles and I think that is the reason the right selvedge isn't as good as it should be. I pegged my dobby and threaded for a crackle pattern. I have floats as long as 4 threads, not good for cheniile. My warp is the rayon thick and thin and 10/2s cotton. However after washing, drying and pressing I've yet to see worms. I like to wear my product for a while to see if the worms come out. Maybe in the near future I'll get selvedge bobbins going. I have a system of my own design for very fine threads using a stop washers, springs, washers, sewing machine bobbins, and a steel rod riding on rubber bands wrapped around the raddle. Not sure if I can adapt it to thicker yarns.