Well, about a year late, I'm finally trying to get around to weaving a Summer and Winter pattern.  I'm sing 20/2 yarn for both the background and pattern, in white for the background and various colors for the pattern.     I've got Donna Sullivan's book Summer and Winter, A Weave for all Seasons.  I'm used to thinking of S & W as having alternate tabby and pattern picks, but on page 30 in the book, at the top, there is a treddling that uses two tabby picks alternated with two pattern picks.   This would save a lot of shuttle changes, and I could "station" one shuttle at each side of the warp, weave two picks and then change shuttles, weave 2, etc., etc.  It seems like it would be pretty easy to keep my place, and according to the book, this produces a stronger pattern color.

But when I put this scheme into my weaving software, it sort of looks like it will create fine stripes in the warp.  Since I'm using 20/2, that might be OK, but I'm wondering if anyone out there has tried this?   Do you end up with something that looks like stripes, or does it look OK?   

Since the change is in the treddling, not the threading, I can always switch back if it doesn't work. . . . .

 

Comments

tien (not verified)

I'm not sure which treadling you're referring to (I don't have the book with me right now), but there are photos of the results of various S&W treadlings in this Weavezine article: http://www.weavezine.com/content/summer-and-winter-taquet%C3%A9 - that may give you an idea of how the result will look. I hope that helps!

SallyE (not verified)

I will have to study this!   Thanks!  It also reminds me how much I miss weavezine. . . .

 

sally orgren

But if you load a screen capture of your draft so we can see, that might help.

One question, why the tie downs a different color than the body of the warp?

And what would happen if the pattern weft was slightly thicker than the rest, say 16/2 or 10/2, when the warp was 20/2?

I agree, it would be easy to treadle and see what you think, then revert to something else if not happy with the result. I too, wonder how much the pattern picks would cover the double tabby.

 

SallyE (not verified)

The tie-downs are the same color as the warp.   I'm not sure what I said that seemed to indicate otherwise. . . .  It's just that you do two tie-downs and then two pattern picks.

Anyway, here is a picture of that page (page 30).   The little dots are the tie-downs, and the squares are the pattern picks.

 

 

sally orgren

I think I misread the "white for background and various colors for pattern". Sorry.

I saw the illustration in the book, but was wondering what your draft looked like with those stripes in the warp.

Here is what I am thinking—could there be some deflection happening that softens these lines in real weaving, that is not rendering correctly in the software?

 

SallyE (not verified)

I put the book's treddling into my software, and got the same result.  It's just a function of having two pattern picks next to each other, so I think I'm just going to have to try it and see if I like it.  I don't think it would help to post my design, since by the time I reduced it enough to post, it would be too small to really see.   The thing I'm working on is a 16 block (18 shaft) Summer and Winter.

 

sally orgren

I have a 4 tie down, 12 shaft sampler going right now. Tie downs are 1234 order. I can try placing two pattern pics next to each other, take a photo of a little section of the fabric to see what it looks like, if you think that might be interesting? 

laurafry

Don't forget that wet finishing may help the threads ease into a less 'stripe-y' appearance...

cheers,

Laura

SallyE (not verified)

That is such a nice offer Sally, but I don't want to put you to the trouble. I don't think it would tell me much unless you were using the same treddling that I'm planning, but thank you for offering!

I did  little research last evening - I got out every book that I have that mentiones S & W, looking for the treddling that is in Sullivan's book - the treddling I posted above that uses two background picks alternated with two pattern picks.   The Sullivan book was the only place I found it.   Of course, there are plenty of books that I don't have. . . . . .

Well, I am just going to have to try it, and if I don't like it I'll have to do it the regular way.  And wet finishing might help too, as Laura suggests!

 

ReedGuy

Is S&W the same as Crackle or Halvdräll? Just wondering here.

SallyE (not verified)

No, S & W, crackle and Halvdräll are all different.

In S & W every other thread is a tie down on shaft 1 or 2, alternating.   So you can have n - 2 blocks where n is the number of shafts you have.  For example, with 4 shafts for have 2 blocks:  4241  3231. The warp is all one color (background) and the treddling alternates the tie-downs with the pattern threads.   But as I posted above, Sullivan's book shows some alternate treddling where the tie-downs and pattern picks are grouped.

For 5 shafts your have 3 blocks:  5251 4241  3231, etc.

Crackle is a twill structure where the blocks progress in one direction or the other, for example:  12321   23432   34143  41214, etc.  There is a lot more to it, but this gives you an idea.

Halvdräll, the way I understand it, has tie-downs included in every block, but the tie-downs aren't always on the same shafts as they are in S & W.   In fact, the shafts used for pattern on one block will be used for the tie downs on the other block.  So for 4 shafts:

Block A:  4121232121    (Pattern threads are in bold)

Block B:  1434323434

Isn't it interesting how many weave structures there are, given that each member of a warp / weft pair is either under or over the other!

If I got any of this wrong, please speak up!

 

ReedGuy

I guess I don't have an explanation in 'Warp and Weft'. Just a section on 4 shaft block weaves (including overshot) with the other two mentioned weaves.

SallyE (not verified)

I'm kind of under the impression that the name Summer and Winter is a US or North American name for the structure.   Does anyone know what it's called in Swedish?

 

kerstinfroberg

In Cyrus' Handbok i vävning (translated as Manual of Swedish handweaving) she says we (the swedes) "imported" that structure from Finland, where it is called kuvikas. Somewhere I have read that kuvikas (in Finnish) just means patterned, but have not been interested enough to check that in a proper dictionary. (the 'net dictionaries I have tried do not list it - could perhaps be another case of "dräll", which can mean anything from "patterned" to specific weave structures)

Nowadays we (that is VÄV magazine) tend to call it sommar och vinter.

Anyway, as s&w is a tied weave, it would not fall into the same section as crackle, overshot and halvdräll in any Swe book.

ReedGuy

Yes, the book I mentioned is by Swedish authors. :)

ReedGuy

According to the authors of 'Warp and Weft', kuvikas is referred to as tied lampas with block pattern. Other lampas techniques are done on a draw loom. Lampas is defined in Nordic Textile Technique Terminology-for Industrial Weaving Production (Geijer, Hoffman, Norli - Norway, 1979).

Su Butler

S&W is often called Single Two-Tie unit weave, but in European texts I believe the most common term is kuvikas.  Kuvikas seems to encompass a lot of different weaves that include tie down threads, but not always tied weaves.  

For you 2:2 ratio weave, you will end up with a cloth that has a different appearance than the usual 1:1 ratio S&W, but it will be a beautiful cloth.  I would, however, suggest you use a ground weft (your tabby) that is smaller than the warp and a pattern weft that is a little larger.  You will get an unbalanced weft stripe that way, but it will look less obvious than with a ground weft the same size as the pattern weft.  One of the many beauties of tied weaves is you have so many options for creating cloth with structural integrity and slightly different appearance.  Play a little.  The rhythm of a tied weave will soon feel comfortable, even when you are juggling shuttles....I am currently weaving one with three shuttles, and have done as many as 8.  Take your time and enjoy the process....

SallyE (not verified)

Thanks Sue, I will try that.   I have plenty of yarn to choose from, so the playing should be fun!

 

ken

I have a question with regard to the structure. I'm using a 4 shaft loom so that means I'm raising shaft 1& 3 for the first block and 2 & 4 for the second block?

If shaft one is threaded for tabby and shaft three for pattern, does that mean that each shot functions as both the tabby and the pattern? If so then I would have to set up for multiple tie up correct?

I'm trying to get my brain wrapped around this but having a little trouble trying to envision this.

 

Dena (not verified)

Ken-Shaft one and two are for "tie downs".  These keep everything secure.  Every other thread is either a one or a two, alternating.  The "in betweens" are for the blocks...on a four shaft loom, that's either three for block a or four for block b (keep in mind that some resources reverse all of this)....So...to get a plain weave, or a tabby,  you alternate lifting 1 and 2 together and then everything else together (on 4 shafts, that's 3 and 4, for six it would be 3, 4, 5 and 6).  For block a, you thread 1, 3, 2, 3, (repeat) for block b it's 1, 4, 2, 4 (repeat).  If you had additional shafts and wanted a third block, it would be 1, 5, 2, 5 (repeat). 

Woodburner

There are several ways of making the blocks, each producing a different look. The article Tien posted a link to (#2) shows them nicely. On a four shaft loom, you won't be able to make the fancy heart shape, and tbh I can't get my head round the treadlings there but it does show the textures very nicely.

The treadlings here-> http://leighsfiberjournal.blogspot.co.uk/2008/10/summer-winter-treadling.html are much easier to understand, and the related pages are useful too.

ken

Dena,

so shaft 1 and 3 are lifted simultaneously  for each block and then 2 and 4,is that correct?

SallyE (not verified)

If you look at my posting above from 7/19, it shows how to treddle the tabby (the circles) and the pattern (the squares).   However, what you want to do is do the first tabby, then the first pattern, then the second tabby and then the second pattern.  With 4 shafts, you can only do 2 blocks, A and B.   But you can design a pattern with two blocks, just always do a full cycle (4 picks) for each block, whether you do block A or B.

The thing I posted was an alternate treddling where you use two tabby and then two pattern, but I tried that and it didn't really like it.   But still, the tie-up is correct, you just want to treddle in a different order, as I just explained.

 

Woodburner

Meh! What I had written was right, just I entered it wrongly into the software!

Here it is again!

shaft 1 and 3 lifted simultaneously is one possible pick for block A

shaft 2 and 4 lifted simultaneously is one possible pick for block B, the important distinction between those two picks is that the 1&3 lifts shaft 3 -one of the pattern shafts- and the 2-4 lifts shaft 4, the pattern shaft for the other block.

Try this

1&3 (A)  1&2 (tabby a) 2&3 (A) 3&4 (tabby b) repeat this sequence of picks at least four times, preferably more then switch to

1&4 (B)  1&2 (tabby a) 2&4 (B) 3&4 (tabby b) again repeating at least four times

strictly speaking, you don't have to repeat at all, but four (or more) repeats will show you more clearly the structure of the overall pattern you are making.

This is just one of the possible ways of making s&w blocks, and is often called 'alternate'. Once you've got your head around this one, the others become easier to understand.

 

N.b. Don't get confused by the tabby shafts being 1&2 and 3&4 rather than the convention for 1&3 and 2&4, also remember that normal/basic S&W uses the same yarn for every pick, NOT like overshot. NOT one for tabby another for the pattern. Those two things had me confused for ages.

Dena (not verified)

Hi Ken-Not to be redundant, but I will take a go at this also.  I am used to using two shuttles and seeing (and weaving) the tabby in a different weft than the pattern.  Either way should be fine, depending on what you are going for in your finished fabric. 

I am writing the treadling out as if you are using two shuttles (tabby and pattern).  S & W is generally treadled in one of three different ways.  Play around with all of them to see which one you like the best.  This would be much easier visually if I knew how to format in weavo, but hopefully it's understandable.

#1:

(block a) 1 and 3 (pattern), 1 and 2 (tabby), 2 and 3 (pattern), 3 and 4 (tabby), then repeat

(block b) 1 and 4 (pattern), 1 and 2 (tabby), 2 and 4 (pattern), 3 and 4 (tabby)...this is basically the same as block a but you are replacing all the 3s with 4s in the pattern throws 

#2 (I am going to leave off the tabby shots when writing it out this time...insert between each pattern throw)

1 and 3, 2 and 3, 2 and 3, 1 and 3 (you reverse the order the second time around, or basically do two shots of each pattern throw in between your tabbys...replace 3s with 4s for block b) 

#3: leave out your 2 and 3 togethers and your 2 and 4 togethers in your pattern...

(block a) 1 and 3 pattern, 1 and 2 tabby, 1 and 3 pattern, 2 and 4 tabby, repeat

(block b) 1 and 4 pattern, 1 and 2 tabby, 1 and 4 pattern, 2 and 4 (tabby), repeat