Hello!

I am brand new to floor looms, and I am trying to figure most of it out from books.  I just purchased a 4 harness, 4 treadle JL Hammett loom.  I finally got it all set up and a warp on it so I could begin learning.  However, the treadles are giving me fits!  Treadles 1 and 2 work just fine.  Treadles 3 and 4 move harnesses 3 and 4 up and down together, not seperately.  I have tried adjusting the tie ups this way and that, with no help. 

I have been trying to do the first lesson in Deborah Chandler's book, which is tying up all four treadles directly, and doing a simple tabby weave using treadles 1 and 3 together and 2 and 4 together.  I can get the sheds to form just fine with these combinations, but the treadles are coming up way too high, which makes me think I have them tied up too short to start with.  But again, when I try to form sheds using individual treadles, 3 and 4 sink and rise together, but stay near the floor.   

Any suggestions?  Thanks - Lori

Comments

Thu, 09/01/2011 - 17:59

Joanne Hall

Send photos.  That might tell us what is wrong.

Joanne

Thu, 09/01/2011 - 18:15

Diamond B Sheep Farm

What parts would I need to take pictures of to give an accurate idea?  Obviously the treadles, but what else?

Lori

Thu, 09/01/2011 - 18:37

Sara von Tresckow

Get something better than Chandler. Laila Lulndell's "Big Book of Weaving"

Shirley Held "Weaving"

Rachel Brown "Weaving Spinning Dyeing"

to name a few.

If your loom isn't the one type shown in Chandler, no wonder you are having difficulty.

Send photos of the whole loom, the treadles, and the shafts so we can determine how YOUR loom works.

Thu, 09/01/2011 - 19:00

Diamond B Sheep Farm

Okay, I drive a school bus, so I am about to leave.  I will take pictures and post them tonight.

Thank you all so much.  There isn't anyone around here to learn from, and I appreciate you all being willing to help!

Lori

Thu, 09/01/2011 - 23:55

Diamond B Sheep Farm

Here are the pictures.  I am sorry they are dark.  The loom sits in the corner of my den, and the overhead light is in the center of the room.  Here is the loom:

Here are the treadles:

Here is what happens when you press down treadle one:

Treadle 2 goes up way too high, I think.  I am whacking my knee on the bottom of the front beam to get it down.

All of the following pictures are from the back of the loom.

Next, here is what happens when treadle one is pressed, the harness #2 goes up: (sorry it is dark, but I think it is working right, anyway)

I didn't take a picture of treadle #2 action - it seems to be alright, also.

This is what happens when you press treadle #3.  Not much.  It pulls both #3 and #4 harnesses down, and #1 and #2 go up:

And the same with treadle 4:

Actually, even less happens when you press treadle 4.  Both 3 and 4 stay near the ground.

Does that help?  Again, I know I probably have treadles 1 and 2 tied up too short.

Thanks!

Fri, 09/02/2011 - 01:48

Joanne Hall

Check to see that your shafts are tied at the correct height.  The warp threads need to make a straight line from the front of the loom to the back.

Then you will be happier with the treadle tie-up if you ignore the exercise in the book and tie up two treadles to each shaft.   The author is assuming that you are weaving on a jack loom and want to use two feet to treadle.  Some think that learning to weave like one does on a table loom with levers, moving one shaft at a time  is better than starting with the complete tie-up.  But this is not necessary. There will be plenty to explore with 2/2 sheds.  Start by determining the length of the treadle cords for the tie ups with two cords on each treadle.  That will tell you how long the cords need to be.  Later on you can try the 3/1 sheds in the exercise.  

Joanne

Fri, 09/02/2011 - 01:48

Joanne Hall

Check to see that your shafts are tied at the correct height.  The warp threads need to make a straight line from the front of the loom to the back.

Then you will be happier with the treadle tie-up if you ignore the exercise in the book and tie up two treadles to each shaft.   The author is assuming that you are weaving on a jack loom and want to use two feet to treadle.  Some think that learning to weave like one does on a table loom with levers, moving one shaft at a time  is better than starting with the complete tie-up.  But this is not necessary. There will be plenty to explore with 2/2 sheds.  Start by determining the length of the treadle cords for the tie ups with two cords on each treadle.  That will tell you how long the cords need to be.  Later on you can try the 3/1 sheds in the exercise.  

Joanne

Fri, 09/02/2011 - 03:16

Diamond B Sheep Farm

Thank you very much!  I will try and get it going again tomorrow!

Lori

Fri, 09/02/2011 - 17:24

Diamond B Sheep Farm

So, does that mean that treadles 1 and 2 will both be tied up to the bar #1 and to bar #2 below harness 1 and 2?  and the same for 3 and 4? 

Also, the pictures on glimarka show pulleys to run the tie ups from the treadles through - or can I just run the cord through the eye at the bottom of bar that is tied to the harness, or should it be tied to the eye?

I am so confused...

There are no weaving guilds around here, or I would sure enough be looking up someone to help in person!  I drove hours and hours to pick up this loom, and the lady that had it didn't know much about how to use it, either.  I didn't think it would be this difficult to set the loom up! :) 

Fri, 09/02/2011 - 19:12

Karren K. Brito

In order to help you with your new loom we need to understand what is happening.  We know you are having a hard time, and people are reaching out to you.  You could get us more info by having clearer photos or better descriptions.  Better descriptions, which means that you need to learn a specailized vocabulary.  Get a book, library is fine, that has a picture or drawing of a loom like yours-- not a jack loom-- and learn all the parts names.

Joanne Hall, who has been trying to help you, has a book on tieing-up (this is what you are doing)counter-marche looms( related to counter-balanced but more complicated still).  She is also the owner of Glimakra Loom company and there is hardly any one more knowledgable about setting up these kind of looms.

Are the harnesses all the same height and straight when the treadle are at rest?  Alright, look for the lamms under the harnesses and tell us about the cords that tie them to the harnesses (clear picture(s) could help).  How many cord are there from each lamm to harnesses?  Are the all the same length?  Are the lamms all lined up at rest?  Then treadle 1 has how many cords to which lamms??  Are the ties cords, chains, texsolv? how are you adjusting the lenght of each?  Etc.

It probably is not difficult to set up this loom with instructions.  But if you have never seen this loom work and had no instructions to follow , wow!  you have done a lot. Just hang in there, it will work shortly-- just not as soon as you wanted.

Fri, 09/02/2011 - 21:58

sequel (not verified)

You have a Hammett loom with 4 treadles and 4 lamms.  You can tie it up "directly" by tying one treadle to each lamm.  But you will always need to treadle in pairs or tie up pairs on the lamms because it is a counterbalanced loom.  (Actually the shed on the Hammett is so big you can fool around with unbalanced sheds, but it will be a split shed, two shafts down and one sort of in the middle.) 

You will also need to know that on a counterbalanced loom the treadle you depress will pull the selected shaft(s) down, instead of up, as on a jack loom.  So the pattern on some weave drafts written for jack looms will be on the underside of your weaving.  The good news is, all the drafts in Marguerite Davision's book are written for counterbalanced looms and will weave right side up!

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 01:57

patchworkfibers (not verified)

My first floor loom was a Hammett. I'm sorry I sold it. I was such a newbie that I didn't realize you weren't supposed to weave unbalanced sheds on a counterbalance loom. I noticed the sheds weren't as big or even when I wove a 3/1 weave, but I happily and successfully wove whatever struck my fancy for years.

 

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 03:48

Diamond B Sheep Farm

Let me start by saying "Thank You!" to everyone who has offered advice!

Thank you, Ms. Brito for commenting.  I sincerely hate having to keep asking for help, but I honestly do not have anyone to ask locally.  I taught myself to spin, and to weave on a rigid heddle loom from looking on the internet, without having to ask any questions, again, because there just is not anyone locally interested in these arts.  I just cannot figure out the set up of this loom, which frustrates me more than you can imagine.  Very few thing cause me this much grief trying to learn them.

I cannot get good pictures because of the lighting in the room.  The loom is in the corner, and the light is in the center, and, as you can see, the pictures are awful.  Those terrible pictures were taken with additional lighting, even. Let me try to explain a little better.

There are 4 harnesses and 4 treadles.

The harnesses are straight and even when the treadles are at rest.  The treadles are even, also.  I adjusted until I got them in order.  The warp is on the loom, through the reed and the heddles (in pattern 1,2,3,4) and pretty much flat, too.

Each harness is attached to only one lamm with a short texsolv cord, about 1 1/2" long.  When the treadles are at rest, the lamms are parallel to the floor and even with each other.  The front harness is attached to the front lamm, the second harness to the second lamm, and so on. 

Treadle one is attached only to the lamm closest to the front of the loom with one texsolv cord.  It is tied off at the lamm.  The texsolv is then looped through the eye bolt on the treadle and tied off using a plastic peg (which I have seen sold with texsolv on the internet) to allow it to be adjusted, I assume.  Treadle two is attached to the next lamm with only one texsolv chord, and the same for treadles three and four.

When I depress either treadles three or four independently, both harnesses three and four sink, instead of just one.  When I depress treadles one or two, each of their corresponding harness sink, while the other rises, a little.

When I depress treadles one and three, two rises a tolerable amount, but four goes up pretty much as high as it can go.  I am banging my knee repeatedly on the underside of the loom trying to get it down.  I am assuming I have the treadles tied up too high if this is occuring, but if I tie three and four any lower, they will be on the floor , with no room to depress them.

I do not understand the complete tie up, and am guessing from what others are saying, that perhaps I should use this method instead of direct tie up.  Is treadle one attached to lamm one, using one eye bolt on the treadle, then also to lamm two using a second eye bolt on the treadle?  That is the best understanding I have from looking at many pictures on the internet and reading equally as many blogs.

Again, thank you for taking the time to answer.  Once I get this part figured out, I should be good to start learning how to weave, and that part I am confident I can learn without pestering folks!

 

Lori 

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 03:54

Diamond B Sheep Farm

I will certainly look for this book.  Thank you for the insight!

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 04:04

Joanne Hall

Hi Lori,

I have been away from the computer today, but others have responded to help you.  Thanks Karren for the nice comments.  Yes, Lori, you might benefit from getting my book, Learning to Warp your loom.  It has some information on counterbalance loom tie-ups and also information on treadle tie-ups.

But for now, simply add one more treadle cord to each treadle.  Set it up so that you have every combination of two shafts.  So, you will start with the treadle that has one cord to shaft (harness) 1.  Add to that another cord for shaft (harness) 3.  Then continue.  You will then have 1&3, 2&4, 1&2, 2&3, 3&4, 4&1.  Then try the sheds, after they are all tied up.

I am leaving for Sweden soon, but I am sure the other weavers will be able to help you.

[email protected]

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 13:30

sequel (not verified)

It sounds to me like your tie-up cords may be too short.  Do you have the reprint of the original instructions from Janet Meany's Loom Manual Library?

The Hammetts we have where I teach have usually 6 to 8 inches of cord between the lamms and the treadles.  By tying them so short, you may have some interference between the treadles and the lamms.  Also check to see if the cords from one treadle aren't getting caught over the lamms for another treadle.  That would cause the treadles to act together instead of separately.  This looks like what is happening in one of your photos. 

Treadle 1, the first on the left, should be tied to first eyelet on the front (closest to the weaver) lamm (the bar of wood below the heddle shafts).  The second treadle to the second eyelet on the second lamm,coming up between the first and second lamm, and so on.  Your photos show these tie-ups all crossed up and so they cannot function correctly.

Also, the cords that go over the upper and secondary rollers do not appear to spiral around the rollers, they look like they are knotted or tied somehow... that won't work either. 

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 16:40

Karren K. Brito

but just in case. In order for shaft/harness 1 to go down shaft 2 must go up.  This is because they are connected by a cord over a pulley.  When #1 goes down and #2 goes up you get a really big shed.  It also means that this looms works easiest when 2 shafts go down and 2 go up.  If something doesn't move you won't have a clear shed.  All shafts should move a comparable distance to get a good, clear shed-- look at the shed from the side.  A clear shed means that all up threads are at the same height and all down threads are lined up and there are NO threads in the middle.

Why don't you check this by using your hand to push down shaft 1 and see if shaft 2 goes up.  Then push down 1,3 and look at the shed from the side and make sure it is clear.  Check out all pairs of shafts.  If you push down 1,2 and 3 and 4 go up different amounts  you will not have a clear shed.   When you are sure the pulleys and shafts are working as they should, check out the lamms.

Check out the ties from the shafts to the lamms. Are they straight and of the appropriate length?  Disconnect the lamms from the treadles.  Is the shed good when you move the lamms with your hands?  When you are sure that the lamms are working properly start tieing up the treadles, two lamms to each treadle.

This way you should be able to isolate where your problem is.  We are making progress here.

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:43

Joanne Hall

Yes, it looks like the cord is not wrapped around the dowel.  That would explain why 3 and 4 stay together.  But she is able to lower just treadle one and two goes up.  So, Lori, tell us how the shafts are attached to the rollers.  They need to be wrapped around them, usually 1 1/2 times.

Joanne

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 23:41

Diamond B Sheep Farm

The cord is wrapped around the rollers just like you said it should be. Yipee! I got something right! And the sheds look alright when I move the harness by hand. I really think the problem is between the treadles and the lamms - each treadle is only tied to one lamm, and I believe the cords are the wrong length. I will have to order some more texsolv and anchors in order to get everything connected correctly. But I think I understand it now!

I sincerely appreciate the help everyone has given me, and apologize again for the rotten pictures. I can hardly wait to learn this art!

Lori

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 12:39

sequel (not verified)

Picture 2 shows the treadle cord from shaft 4 doing some kind of hang up on the lamms.  Could be your problem on the shaft 3-4 shed.

Old time weavers would thread plain weave on a counter balanced loom 4-2-3-1 instead of 4-3-2-1.  This would make the plain weave shafts operate with 1&2 vs. 3&4, a little easier to get a nice shed on a wide warp as only the upper roller has to rotate.  Edward Worst's Foot Power Loom Weaving uses this convention of many of his overshot drafts.

 

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 21:35

Diamond B Sheep Farm

That is an optical illusion in my awful photo.  It is the tail of the cord from the top of lamm one, which is raised, hanging down.  I will try the threading you recommended next time I warp it up.  Right now I am waiting on funds to purchase more texsolv, so the loom is just sitting.  :(

Thank you!

Lori

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 00:37

FiberFever (not verified)

a wealth of info here, click on the weaving book on the left side of the page. I have a hammett and it is giving me problems, or rather the nut behind the wheel is working wrong. ann~