So, I picked up this antique 4 shaft counterbalance loom for free.

(Pictures here in a Google Photo album. Does this work? https://photos.app.goo.gl/OfvN5csoI62QtgwI3)  Th two previous owners hadn't assembled it, but I think I figured it out. I'm new to weaving so I'm thrilled to get it going, but it's not going very smoothly so I'm looking for pointers or eesources to guide me through fixing it up better. For instance, the harnesses really want to hang crooked, and I've got all the ropes and things tied basically exactly the same, so I don't know what to tweak next... Surely there are other forum posts or blogs or books that can help with these questions? I'm an experienced knitter so it's uncomfortable to be exploring a new craft that I'm so unfamiliar with, I don't even know where to get help!

 

 

Comments

Fri, 02/23/2018 - 18:42

ShawnC

This sometimes happens when doing a narrow warp. Shafts don't go back to neutral often anyway until pressing the next treadle. There are cool things called shaft bras (see photos at Vavstuga weaving) that are loops of buttonhole elastic tied up at shaft level. They stretch when you treadle, but help shafts go back. I love them. For more info on CB looms like yours, try The Big Book of Weaving.

Good luck! Looks like a pretty loom!

 

Shawn

 

http://store.vavstuga.com/product/vavstuga-bal-elastichangers.html

Fri, 02/23/2018 - 19:12

kerstinfroberg

It doesn't matter if the *hang* crooked - the only important thing is if they "behave" when you are weaving (and thus press a treadle).

The shed floor is the most important thing. If the top of the shed is uneven is of no importance, unless some shafts are too low, so that the low threads interfere with the shuttle.

How things look when nobody is actually weaving is of no importance whatsoever. 

Fri, 02/23/2018 - 19:17

sqcover

Unfortunately, the crookedness of the hanging is the same when I press the treadles. I keep retying things, which is getting old! and isnt working either

Fri, 02/23/2018 - 21:11

kerstinfroberg

I always found it difficult "in the olden days" (before texsolv) to tie everything to my best liking... so I commiserate.

Have you tried the idea of ShawnC?
(Really, there is no weaving police - whatever works, works. Maybe you (I, all of us) can find the golden solution just with practice... let's hope!)

Sat, 02/24/2018 - 15:40

sqcover

I've just requested the Big Book of Weaving from the library, and have several other basic/advanced weaving books already out (academic first stop for new hobby: library for a stack of books half as tall as me lol). But none of them have a troubleshooting section like I'm looking for. Maybe looms are so varied, there's really no way to answer those questions broadly. 

I can't even find a single loom that looks like mine. Specifically the brake system is unique - all those holes for metal rods! I was hoping once I found a similar model, I could just find lots of blog and forum posts and gradually learn what I need. But I'm stuck with a homemade antique loom that's apparently unique! Kinda cool, if I had any idea what I was doing, and how a working loom was meant to feel. I'm sure I'll learn... it will just be slow!

I plan on making a wider warp very soon for some tea towels, but the "bra" idea is clever (and shows me that this might just be a common issue that no knot tweaking will resolve)

I retied everything last night and wove a bit more. The harnesses catch on each other and on the frame. I have to "pump" the treadles to get them to dislodge almost every time. There are two screws on each side of the frame right next to the lower part of the heddles, as if some piece or rope was attached there. I can't find anything similar on other looms, but perhaps I'm missing a key part of the system for this one.

Sat, 02/24/2018 - 15:48

ShawnC

Yeah, the shaft bras are wonderful. I use them a lot. One of the things about your loom is that at some point they replaced the shafts. Most of the old looms had simple shaft bars with string heddles. Might be why things are also wonky. I have replaced the string heddles on an antique Norwegian loom with texsolv. They don't stretch. also the tie ups. Texsolv is some wonderful stuff, as Kerstin mentions.

Sat, 02/24/2018 - 16:17

sqcover

Ah, the replacement idea makes sense. The metal pieces that the heddles are strung on (what are they called?) (I got new heddles, btw, because the old ones were flat steel and rusted) are too long and extend outside the frame of the loom! Do you have a picture or something so that I can see how the shaft bars might have been originally set up? Would it be worth trying to revert back to that set-up in some way? Since the modernization isnt really working...

Sat, 02/24/2018 - 17:50

ShawnC

It may be a good idea, if the current system isn't working. You can zoom in on the photo of the Glimakra. Basically shaft sticks with texsolv heddles.

 

https://woolery.com/glimakra-standard-countermarche-floor-loom.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIztrxlY6_2QIVlZV-Ch2QmgsFEAQYASABEgJTufD_BwE

Sat, 02/24/2018 - 18:13

kerstinfroberg

I looked at your pics again.

We Swedes are told that the ideal placement of the knots on the top of the shaft is 1/4 in from the ends. As I have never tried any other placement (why fix "it" if it ain't broke?) I can't say if that is necessary... but perhaps something to try?
(Yes, it means the top tie-up has to be re-done every time heddles have to be moved, but as "this is how it should be done", we don't find that a problem...)

Then I read all your posts: if the shaft bars are too wide for the frame, they have to be shortened. If the shafts can't move freely within the frame, no re-tying will help.

Sat, 02/24/2018 - 20:17

Sara von Tresckow

The tensioning with holes and rods is fairly common - as long as there is a finer toothed ratchet/pawl on the cloth beam it will be good. The shafts are simply ODD. I have seen two sticks without side frames and string heddles making the shaft height. I have seen wooden frames with metal heddle bars, but with side pieces that hold those metal bars at a fixed height. That works as long as the heddles have the correct length. But I have NEVER seen those heavy metal heddle bars just swinging free. That is some type of home built arrangement - the easiest way to make that better would be to use two wooden shaft bars with your current heddles. Then your shafts would start behaving. That construction will never balance.

Sat, 02/24/2018 - 23:21

sandra.eberhar…

I  think you are correct that this is a one-off home built loom.  Whoever made it had apparently seen a loom with steel heddles and heddle bars and thought these were an improvement over thread heddles and wooden heddle bars.  They are easier to thread, but are also much heavier and only work with rigid square frames for the heddles.  You can go two ways: as previous posts suggest, go to wooden heddle bars and texsolv or homemade string heddles.  Or you can buy heddle frames and steel heddles (more expensive).  I did the latter for a rug loom that works with very wide, very high tension warps.  The steel heddle bars and heddles that you have will not balance with the treadles unless you weight the treadles.  It is a counterbalance loom; the weight of the shafts must balance the weight of the treadles and lamms (if present).  If this balance is present, the shafts will return when the treadle is released.  You could also add side pieces to the bars that you have, but you mention that they are catching on each other.  It may be difficult to salvage them without some quite skilled wood working.

And remember that without a warp on, every CB loom hangs crookedly.  The warp stabilizes the tie up.

Sun, 02/25/2018 - 00:04

sqcover

I really appreciate all the help here! I was hoping my local weaving store would have provided a bit more of this, but I was just given replacement heddles and a reed and sent on my way (though she probably didn't even know where to begin with me! I'm such a newbie)

Sounds like the consensus is that I get wooden heddle bars (sticks?), whether I (1) keep the current heddles and put them on two wooden bars, or (2) get the more authentic string heddles (well, Texsolv), string them along the wooden shafts I already have, and get a lower wooden bar to keep them organized (did I get that right?). So now my question is where do I find these bars? Or do I just get some wood from the hardware store? Since I started with a minimum of 200 heddles for four shafts, I was already going to get more for my next project, so I might as well shift over to texsolv. Certainly it looks like I need texsolv for my tie up.

Sara, there's no rachet on the cloth beam. Not sure there ever was, by the look of it. I think that's the difference here. But maybe the fact that NOTHING looks like my loom is a sign mine isn't quite set up properly! 

Kerstin, not sure what knots you mean for the 1/4" rule. My shafts have metal eyes to tie to the pulleys, and those are 1" in from the ends. The current heddle bars have holes in them by which they are suspended, and those aren't 1/4" out either, but now I plan to replace them, so can tie the new ones up however. 

 

Sun, 02/25/2018 - 02:21

sandra.eberhar…

Your metal heddles will not work with wooden heddle bars. Please go to the Glimakra website and look at some of the pictures of looms!!!!!  I use slats of wood that are about 2" x 1/4 x whatever length.  Just because your loom doesn't look like anything else you've seen doesn't mean it's put together wrong.  People thought of many ways to brake the warp beam.  I have seen holes in the beam that a rod tied to the frame is inserted in, a wood ratchet with a pole stopping it, the list goes on.  The pulleys on your loom can be found in a well stocked farm country hardware.

Sun, 02/25/2018 - 02:50

sandra.eberhar…

One thing that I noticed is that while most looms use cords to attach the treadles, you have a wooden shaft mortised into the treadle and the lower heddle bar.  This gives an off-center pull on the heddle bar.  This could work for rigid heddle frames, but not for heddle bars.  You need to center the pull from the treadle.

Sun, 02/25/2018 - 03:03

sqcover

I'm finding the Glimakra website incredibly helpful, now that I know I'm not supposed to have metal bars!

Your treadle comment interests me. That bar attached to each treadle can't really be a heddle bar, can it? It's much thicker/boxier than the slats I see elsewhere. Right now I have it tied to the lower heddle bar in three places, using metal eyes at each end, and at the treadle with a hole drilled through the wood. That middle one is off-center, but with the two outer ties I was hoping it would be okay. No?

Sun, 02/25/2018 - 09:00

ShawnC

Hmmm. I'm thinking those bars are supposed to act as floating lamms, but work rather interestingly with the rigid frames. When you get the Big Book of Weaving, it should prove really helpful. You can order shaft bars or make them. They need to be sturdy, but not really heavy.

Mon, 02/26/2018 - 16:46

sqcover

Ok, I really really can't find heddle sticks/heddle bars/shaft sticks for sale anywhere online. I've tried all the terminology variations I know of. But since it doesn't look difficult to make (find the right size wood at the hardware store, cut down to 40 in) I'll go that route. the Texsolv heddles are everywhere so those will be easy to get! Too bad I didn't ask here first before I purchased the wire ones!

Mon, 02/26/2018 - 17:49

sandra.eberhar…

Glimakra has them.  Look for the price list.