Hello! I am having an awful time trying to get even tension with my 12/6 seine twine warp (10 epi)! The tension feels even after I tie onto my apron bar (1 inch groups of threads),but when I begin to weave, my fell isn't straight some where. I must have tied and retied at least a dozen times. Usually it's the 2 outer groups that curve down, but sometimes it's one of the inner groups waving up to me.  I even re- beamed the whole warp. This is supposed to be a weft faced project, and to add to my frustration, my 5/2 cotton (as suggested in Nacy Hoskin's Weft Faced Pattern Weaves) will not cover the warp.  Sorry for whining, but I'm ready to throw in the shuttle! Any ideas or suggestions would be so appreciated!

Comments

Sun, 03/20/2016 - 17:32

tommye scanlin

Make your two side ties of smaller bouts, say 4 and 6 to get the equivalent of the 10 epi of your sett.  Then as you weave in header, if you're getting a curve downward, fill in a sort of back and forth wedge until the fell line levels.  To do that you might weave in only a few threads to the first low spot, turn and weave back in the second shed, then turn again and weave back from the selvedge in the first shed to the next low spot.  You may have to do this progressively over, back and forth, a few times to build up the dip and make the fell level. 

To be weft-faced, the tension has to be nice and tight.  The 5/2 cotton should work to cover if the tension is good.

Good luck!  I love the Nancy Hoskin's book, by the way.  Great resource.

Tommye

Sun, 03/20/2016 - 18:48

nancy2

Thanks for the quick response! I'll try your suggestion. I'm anxious to weave some of the samplers in Nacy Hoskin's book!

Sun, 03/20/2016 - 20:18

Erica J

I have worked through much of Nancy's book, it is amazing, you are going to love it.

What are you using for your packing material between the warp layers? It seems the outer edges are loosing up as you weave, this may indicate that the tight tension needed is making those outer edge warps cut into your packing material? Without being there that is just a guess. I hope that helps, I look forward to seeing what you do!

Just so you know you're not along, I had a tough time starting with Nancy's book, various things got in the way, but once it all came together I became a bit addicted to the book and now love, love, love weft faced weaving!!!

Sun, 03/20/2016 - 20:22

Queezle

Another option is to lash your warp to the front.  You tie the boughts - and then use a slippery strong twine (I used the stuff hardware stores sell for plumb-bobs).  Evening the tension becomes an exercise in adjusting the lash twine, not re-tyeing - and for me it has become much less frustrating.

Sun, 03/20/2016 - 20:24

Erica J

Queezle, that is an excellent point. I do nearly exclusively lash on now, especially with my weft faced weaving!

Sun, 03/20/2016 - 21:35

nancy2

Tommye, I tried building up the edges as you suggested and it worked...until a few picks later. But the edges are covering the warp as they should in a weft faced weave, but not in the center.  Out of desperation I used a fork to pack the center. It looked great, but I don't think that's a good solution.  I used corregateded cardboard for packing material. The seine twine is very slippery, which may be contributing to the problem. I've never tried lashing on, but will have to give it a try. 

Sun, 03/20/2016 - 21:37

ReedGuy

nancy, the lashing on would probably work very well with your slippery warp.

Mon, 03/21/2016 - 01:07

nancy2

I've never attached a warp this way, but I'll give it a try! Thanks for the suggestion,

Mon, 03/21/2016 - 01:17

Joanne Hall

Another cause for the dip at the selvage is from how you weave in the weft.  Some weavers will leave the weft a little loose at the selvage to prevent draw-in.  If you do this, you will find the weft dipping down until you have something more solid for it to sit on.

Joanne

Mon, 03/21/2016 - 11:12

Artistry

Hi Nancy2,  you've gotten a lot of great advice! Cotton seine twine has quite a bit of stretch to it. I would also lash on. It's very easy to adjust tension by just pulling the lashes a little until the warp feels even. Then I would put some tension on the warp, not a lot, and let it sit over night and let it stretch . Crank it forward the next day. For the packing material , for the heading, try using heavy coarse wool like rug yarn if you have it. Put in one strand at angles in opposite sheds, until you have 3 weft threads, all at angles from each other. Beat down to straight line. You will have a good even strong foundation. This warp may keep stretching on you every time you leave the loom over night, just wind it a little on the back beam.

if you still have edge threads that curve down, as others suggest the edge threads are too loose. the project is sett incorrectly if the weft does not cover the warp of the center portion of your piece. I would change your sett to 9 or 8 epi all the way across, and see if the weft covers.if your edge threads are still too loose ( drooping down) it might help ( not sure) to change only them to a closer sett of 10 epi, or doubling them at the new sett. 

Good luck Nancy, let us know what works for you, or if you still need more help! We've all been there!

Cathie

Mon, 03/21/2016 - 16:19

sandra.eberhar…

The tight tension that weft faced requires may be causing you corrugated packing to crush in places, too.  When I start haveing tension issues, I usually insert a couple of sticks to even things out.  I have found that when I warp with sticks, I rarely have tension issues.

Mon, 03/21/2016 - 16:40

nancy2

I've gotten some great ideas to try! I think it will take me a little time to figure it out, but I'm determined! I'll let you all know what does finally work!

Sun, 03/27/2016 - 17:41

nancy2

I discovered my apron rod was warped and my apron strings were uneven, causing the rod to be unparalleled to the breast beam. I replaced the rod with a metal one and fixed the strings. I tied on the warp using a lash cord as you suggested. It worked! It was so easy to adjust the tension! I kept my sett at 10 epi and used the 5/2 cotton for my weft, but I angled it much more than previously. Voila! My warp was covered! Thank you all so much for your input and help! I was really stumped by this one!

 

 

Sun, 03/27/2016 - 18:57

Erica J

Congratulations, Nancy!!!

I'm not surprised your rod was bowing, weft faced weaves do take an awful lot of tension, so you do need quite strong rods and cords!

Enjoy!! I've been thinking about starting a Tabby to Taquete study group here. Do you think you would be interested?!

Sun, 03/27/2016 - 19:17

nancy2

How does it work? I've been weaving for years, but have never taken a class. I'm retired now and definitely into learning and weaving more...

Sun, 03/27/2016 - 19:37

Erica J

Each study group is a bit different. I lead a study group based on the Mastering Weave Structures book last year. You can see how it worked here.

On Weavolution, we can share projects with groups, which helps pull all our weaving into one place. I also created a disucssion thread for each chapter, where people could ask questions and discuss their experiences with each chapter they studied.

Sun, 03/27/2016 - 19:50

Dawn McCarthy

Try a different packing - corrugated cardboard and brown paper are not ideal (they are suficient in some circumstances) Try warping sticks, and be sure they are slightly (no more than an inch) wider than the warp.  This will provide a solid base and help stop the selvedge ends from being loose.  When winding the warp be sure the angle from outer warp to center where your hands are is not too steep - beaming and packing is important to a stable warp. 

Dawn

Bewove

Sun, 03/27/2016 - 21:18

Joanne Hall

Also remember that your beam cords do not need to extend beyond the width of your warp.  So, if you are weaving less than 1/2 the weaving width of your loom, release the beam cords from the sides.  Leaving them on will cause the tie-on bar to bend.

Joanne

Sun, 03/27/2016 - 22:24

nancy2

but the sticks would always slide on top of each other. Maybe they don't have to be so close? I did learn to only use the beam cords as wide as my warp, but not soon enough to prevent the bowing. I think the rod had been bowed for awhile, and I never noticed.

Mon, 05/08/2017 - 03:56

revann

How do you use warping sticks? Thanks!
Wed, 05/10/2017 - 15:43

sally orgren

Place them on the warp beam at intervals, to create a smooth surface. The packing sticks can be placed on either side of the knots or rods, to create an even circumference on the warp beam. Having sticks wider than the warp is important, so if the warp spreads in winding, it does not slip off this secure foundation. If your warp is longer than a few yards, you might want to add another layer half way through winding, or at intervals, for selvedge support, especially if you are using flimsy paper or corrugated paper that might collapse under high tension. You can also use a set of packing sticks at the front, when the tie on knots reach the cloth beam. Surround the knots with sticks to create a smooth circumference for the cloth. Without sticks at the front, the knots will eventually arrive at the cloth beam, and your fell line may go wavy for a bit, until you wind past this point. You might think your tension has gone wonky, but it was just the bump of the knots. FYI, smaller bouts won't create as big of knot/lump, so this experience of a wonky fell line might not happen to everyone equally.
Thu, 05/11/2017 - 10:17

calebsb

I have dealt with similar bowing problems by adding a second steel rod to the apron, tied an inch apart.