I'm wanting to get a loom that has auto cloth advance. More than a fly-shuttle or a dobby system I believe that auto advance will speed things up for me on long warps. Any recommendations for a loom that has this feature? I don't need any other bells and whistles. I'm on a budget but it doesn't have to be a wide loom, 24" or thereabouts would be fine. I'm also open to a system that I could add to an existing loom but I've not seen anything like that.

Comments

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 15:55

sandra.eberhar…

I think what you are looking for is called live weight tension.  Peggy Osterkamp (sp?) talks about it in one of her books, and you can probably find mention of it in past posts here.  I have tried it on one of my looms and have not been able to get it to work.  People who use it really like it, but it was not to be on this loom.  I will try it again on a loom with a metal friction drum.  I do find a fly shuttle is much faster and gives me very even selvadges.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:20

Weavin Steven

The live weight system is close but looks like more of a kludge than a true advance system. I'm thinking of something more along the lines of what AVL incorporates into their looms, but I need something less expensive than an AVL. (http://www.avlusa.com/catalog/loom-additions/automatic-cloth-advance-system/) I believe Fireside makes an advance system too, but their looms are also beyond my budget.

 

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 16:49

laurafry

Hi Steven, the live weight tension is an integral part of the auto advance system.  AVL has two versions - I have the oldest (bought my loom in 1981 when the system was still on the drawing board).  :)  The advantage to the system is that you don't have to keep stopping to advance the warp, and ideally the fell line stays in exactly the same place all the time.  Every time you beat, the system advances the fell by the distance of one pick.  The system is expensive, but adding live weight tension to a loom would be the first step, I would think.  Getting a true auto advance would depend on your loom (I don't know that the AVL system could be fitted to any other loom) and the willingness of an engineer/machinist to manufacture the parts.  Doing a one off job would be very expensive.

For more information on the live weight system, Allen Fannin's book Handloom Weaving Technology or Kati Meek's Dance with your Loom.

cheers,

Laura

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 18:47

Bonnie Inouye (not verified)

Your best bet is to look for a second-hand AVL with an auto advance system. Sometimes you can find a 60" AVL for a bargain price because it can be hard to find a good home for a wide loom.

Don't underestimate the advantage of a good flyshuttle if your warps are wider than 20" or so.

Bonnie Inouye

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 19:06

Sara von Tresckow

Live weight tension is going to be your best bet if you don't go with the AVL system.

Industrial looms have auto advance based on a "pick gear" - either an actual gear wheel or a more sophisticated electronic device. The warp is then carried forward the estimated distance of a single pick.

I've worked with the electronic versions on industrial Jacquard equipment - is a smooth operation but for one thing - you aren't really "beating" like you would on a handloom. The web movement gives you the picks per inch, but there is not a "thump" for each pick where the reed meets the fell line. When weaving things like rep weave, rugs and other types of fabric, sometimes we wish to have a firm beat - if this happens with a pick gear driven autoadvance, it can lead to bowing of the fell line, warp breakage and eventually stopping the loom. 

Live weight tension is anything but a kluge - has been around for centuries - look at museum photos of older European looms - it takes a little while to master as would any other new to you technology - but for general purpose weaving on a 24" to 48" loom, you can't beat it.

As far as I know, no other modern traditional handloom maker sells an autoadvance mechanism, though I do believe it is available on the new TC-2.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 20:04

Weavin Steven

Thanks for the replies. I did more research into the live weight system. While on the face of it, it looks like it would do the job, I have a unique circumstance in that I weave at work. I need something more elegant so as to keep up the "designy" atmosphere. Plus there are constantly kids and not too cautious adults walking by the loom all the time. Despite my best efforts and "please don't touch the loom" signs, my warp often gets fiddled with. I can only imagine what would happen if I attached heavy weights to the loom.

As far as fly shuttles I do a lot of narrow warps and it's my understanding that they don't work too well with that type of weaving.

Perhaps in the absence of an auto cloth advance, the next best thing would be a worm brake system. At least the tension would remain consistent. 

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 20:11

ReedGuy

I've seen a live weight tension setup on an antique loom in France. Just from a series of photos. It was, maybe still is, available as a download from arizona state where they have the repository of weaving literature that folks go looking online. It had rudimentary plans and included a flyshuttle.

df1_loom.pdf was the filename by Philippe Demoule in France.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 20:13

laurafry

Hmm - public 'fiddling' with your loom?  I'd rope that puppy off!  The worm gear system is still only as good as the weaver who 'sets' it each time the cloth is advanced.  The worm gear plus the live weight tension would probably be the 'next best thing' to an auto advance.  

So where do you work?  Sounds like tours are a possibility?  or no?

As a ps - I saw a 60" wide AVL with Compu-dobby, fly shuttle and auto cloth advance go on eBay for a mere $1500 last month.  It was located in PA but still....

cheers,

Laura (always interested in seeing where and how other weavers work)

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 20:38

Weavin Steven

Roped off, signs, warnings, I've tried various things. Kids don't - or can't read - so no help there. Then the adults are shopping and having a good time and can't be bothered to read signs. I own a natural fibers clothing shop and make a number of the things there. I'm very lucky I get to weave at work. Since people interfere with the loom I never put anything important on it, just simple things. Anything important gets woven on my home loom.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 20:50

Sara von Tresckow

The weights on the loom are not an issue, but fly shuttles and public don't mix unless the public is kept several feet away to protect from shuttles literally taking flight and zooming off.

I have been in and around so many live weight looms using bricks, field stones and any other object in close European quarters that this is a non-issue - the weights hang close to the floor and out of the way.

After reading all your caveats, there really isn't anything out there that will satisfy all your wishes - short of putting that loom in a back room where customers are normally not allowed.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 23:22

sandra.eberhar…

I decide whether to set a project on a fly shuttle loom based on the weft size.  I use it for fine threads regardless of the width of the piece.  However, I agree with Sara that a fly shuttle doesn't belong where you have people walking around.  My shuttles rarely come unboxed (leave the shuttle race) but when they do, it can be spectacular.  I tell guests not to stand near the boxes.  

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 23:27

sandra.eberhar…

I recently attended the Ann Arbor Art Fair and saw a vendor selling birds, animals and other sculptures made of rocks.  The booth was held up with weights made by screwing large steel eyes into rocks.  That could make some great loom weights that wouldn't look make-do.  Would probably take a masonry drill.

Sun, 02/09/2014 - 23:42

ReedGuy

Mother calls my flyshuttle the bullet. It may become a trade name. LOL :D

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 02:33

TinaHilton (not verified)

I'm selling my 60" 16 shaft AVL for $4000.  It has the Compudobby I and the mechanical dobby.  It has the old style auto advance that goes up to 32 ppi.  I just want more shafts and a smaller footprint.  It's not available until May though.