What is your normal spinning preference Z spun and S plied, or S spun and Z plied?

Do you have any reason(s) for your preferences? 

Comments

Tue, 11/03/2015 - 22:14

barleycorn

Turn to "Z" right for spinning and S for plying......no reason, just learned to do it this way. Is most commercial yarn done this way? 

Tue, 11/03/2015 - 22:25

Joyce (not verified)

I've been spinning a llama/merino blend to use as weft in a blanket and I started the first yarn with S twist and plied Z.  Is there an advantage of spinning singles S and plying Z rather than the spin Z and ply S?

Tue, 11/03/2015 - 22:25

Joyce (not verified)

I've been spinning a llama/merino blend to use as weft in a blanket and I started the first yarn with S twist and plied Z.  Is there an advantage of spinning singles S and plying Z rather than the spin Z and ply S?

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 13:28

mneligh

For many years I spun Z and plied S -- always.  I knew about Peruvian textiles using twist direction as a design element in weaving, but was too busy with other experimentation to play with it.  Now that I have played with twist direction and also energized yarns in weaving, I can honestly say that it is no longer automatic to sit down with an empty bobbin and new fiber and spin Z.  I have to think about it.

I should point out that sometimes twist and "energy" in a yarn make a huge difference in weaving (which I typically want) and sometimes they don't.  For example, I used two same-weight warps on two looms -- same sett and singles weft.  The bamboo warp piece developed tracking -- subtle, but lending it a spongy testure -- but the wool warp did not.  Was it that the elasticity of the wool, when the tension was released, sprang back and prevented movement, while the inelastic slick bamboo allowed the weft to move around?

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 14:45

endorph

spin Z and ply S, although I have played around a bit with the opposite.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 17:45

Erica J

My commercial yarns that I have check e,  which is by no means all of them, have been S spun and Z plied. So I have started doing the opposite, because I can!

It is good to read what others do, even it is for no particular reason!

I look forwarding to reading responses from other folks too.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 22:33

kerstinfroberg

somewhere I have a book with a chapter about different twist/ply directions compared with different knitting stitches/methods.

Do you want me to try to find it?  - IIRC, there was an interesting picture... (ok, so it was ages ago that I read that book...)

 

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 06:54

Erica J

Kerstin,

It is fabulous that you brought this up. One of the reasons I ask is because I've come across differing opinions. Most of my weaving resesrch discusses the effect of twist direction, and weaving, particularly with twill direction. But I was reading through Sara Lamb's Spin to Weave. She says she doesn't see enough difference in fabrics to bother spinning in her non-standard way.

So I would love to read even more on this topic!

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 12:44

endorph

can come up with this article that would be great. Since i both knit and weave and would like to start using more of my handpsun I would like to see what people have to say of variations of twist, and spinning/plyin direction.

Thanks, Erica, for bringing up this topic.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 13:36

mneligh

I also have Spin To Weave  and have experimented with these things on my own.  That book needs to be compared and contrasted with Collapse Weave and also Fabrics That Shape Themselves (apologies if the titles are off -- I'm not at home and can't grab them at the moment).  I think the bottom line is like that for everything else, the answer is "it depends".  If all else is optimal for yarn effects, warp and weft spun in different directions will pop out more after wet finishing than the same combination spun in the same direction.  Stripes or alternations of yarns spun in opposite directions will tend to ripple or checker (track), and the more energy the yarns have, the more exaggerated the effect.  There are a lot of other factors, however.

I have not been as systematic as Lamb, however, so consider my remarks anecdotal rather than rigorous.  I have finished the spinning of some more experimental yarn, but I have a backlog at both looms . . .

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 18:09

kerstinfroberg

Found the book (ULL - hemligheter, möjligheter, färdigheter by Kerstin Gustafsson ans Alan Waller, 1987, ISBN 91-36-02519-4) but alas, it was the wrong book - .

It has a picture, but the accompanying text is in another of her books (which I don't have, and can't find a title - I do remember getting it via ILL some time in the 1980-ies).

To try to "read" the picture: she used S/S, S/Z, Z/Z, Z/S yarns, "hard" and "soft" twist, using the yarns (don't know the English here - "with the spin" and "against the spin"?). She knitted"european stitches", "european twisted stitches" and "asian stitches". It can be seen the results are very diverse, but as I don't have the text I can't decode "european" or "asian"... (Among my knitting friends I have observed at least 4 ways to make "an ordinary stitch", european or not, so I'm not going to guess!)

What can I say?

Perhaps we should make a joint effort to make several spinning/knitting samples and write a book ourselves?

Mon, 11/09/2015 - 14:51

Walk

I'm mostly a crocheter and read years ago that if you're right-handed, a yarn spun S and plied Z would be less likely to "split" plies on the hook.  I've always spun my homespun that way.  Elsewhere I've read that some traditions come into play regarding taboos of handedness and good or bad spirits.  My personal feeling is that the direction of spin may have more to do with spindle spinning and the ease of twisting to the right (if you're right-handed) which gives a Z twist.  Since most folks are right-handed, I think this is probably how Z twist (with S ply) came to be the "standard".

Mon, 11/09/2015 - 21:07

Erica J

What an interesting response and gets me thinking again about how early textiles seem to mainly be Z spun, which would make sense for primarily right handed spinners.

Kerstin, I have run across Z/Z, etc. in many books, museum documentation. I am wondering what order these refer to warp/weft. How would this be annotated for plies?

Mon, 11/09/2015 - 22:23

barleycorn

I just purchased a new book called Weaving Shaker Rugs by Mary Elva Congleton Erf. This book shows mostly reproduction shaker rugs in the U.S. with three 2 ply yarns of different colors spun together with a z and the same 3 2 ply yarns spun with an S twist. These are then used to make stripes between the fabric strips. The stripes then spin different ways. Very interesting, can't wait to make one.