Greetings!

I'm shopping for a Swedish style CM loom and have narrowed my search to a Glimakra or Oxaback. My final decision is which width to purchase. I'll be ordering new regardless of which one I choose, simply because I've waited a long time for this purchase.... I want to get on with my weaving rather than continue to wait for the "perfect used loom" having all the features I want.

My studio is not large so the maximum width of a loom is an issue. Depth is not an issue - if I can squeeze by to get to the other end! ;-)  

My question is simply, what is the minimum amount of room needed to set-up and adjust a Swedish style loom with vertical CM lams and combination drawloom?

I'v seen many looms with one side pushed up next to a wall - the side opposite the beam cranks/handles. If I did this, how much room do I absolutely need to adjust the loom during it's use? Does one need more width in space to set up the loom than use/adjust it?

Any suggestions and tips on how to manage using a loom in a narrow space?

Many thanks for sharing your experience, comments and suggestions.

Steve P

Minneapolis

Comments

Fri, 09/25/2015 - 11:49

jmbennett (not verified)

While weaving as well as while dressing the loom (not to mention fixing errors) I'd say the width needed would be enough room to walk around the loom even if just to squeeze by.  I've seen looms pushed up against walls but find I need access to both sides at times.  I have hardwood floors and my loom is on sliders so I can push it around easily when I need a little more room on one side or the other.  I have 2 Glimakras, both 120 cm.  Just measured and optimal floor space width-wise is 80" but could (and do) also manage 75". 

Fri, 09/25/2015 - 13:49

Steve P (not verified)

Thanks jmbennett. I seem to recall a 120 cm Glimakra is about 55" wide, overall. That means you must have/need about 20-25 inches, or 10-13" on each side. If I loose a few pounds, I think I can make that work! Thanks!

 

Sat, 09/26/2015 - 00:51

Sara von Tresckow

When space challenged, plan on warping the loom when it is pushed to the center of the room for the warping process. When weaving, you will need enough room to catch and throw the shuttle on the side next to a wall. 

Sat, 09/26/2015 - 01:20

Steve P (not verified)

Thanks Sara. I'm going to set up the loom so I sit with my back to an outside wall with windows. Although I won't have a view out the window when weaving, I also wont be staring into the glare of a bright south facing window. It will also put the warp beam to the center of the studio where I can use any number of processes for beaming on the warp - I traditionally have used a trapease but will be ordering the new loom with a sectional beam. I haven't yet decided if I will use a tension box, AVL Warping Wheel or some other means, but I will have plenty of space for options. I just need to make certain I have enough space along the sides to access the front for weaving and make necessary adjustments.

Sat, 09/26/2015 - 01:27

Sara von Tresckow

Just FYI - the trapeze only serves to lengthen the amount or warp under tension when beaming, you can substitute wraping the chain around breast beam and lower front crossbar to simulate the trapeze. Works really well.

Sat, 09/26/2015 - 08:04

merryamethyst

Have you considered that you may wish to add a flyshuttle? if you have 55" weaving width... 

On my locally made CM, the F.S. takes up about a foot extra on each side. initially, I didn't really want to give up that space. But having woven off my first two projects, I'm glad I did..

 

Sat, 09/26/2015 - 08:52

ReedGuy

I use the breast beam and knee beams like Sara said and I used to be in a small bedroom of a farm house with my 8' wide loom. 8' because of the flyshuttle race. 62" weave width then add 4" for the upright frame, then 8" for the beater uprights that are to the outside and probably an 6" for the beam wheels and handles if I didn't have a flyshuttle. Mine's pretty much like a Glimakra Standard model, but it's home made. Now I have the loom in a large gazebo area with 4' of room around the sides and back and probably 25 feet behind the bench. I will be moving the loom to a loft area in 5 years where I'll have 16' in width and about 30 length. But of course the warping aids in that space to. Nice big window in the west for my $M view of farms and hardwood forested hills including Mnt Katahdin and Mars Hill.  :)

Sat, 09/26/2015 - 12:30

jmbennett (not verified)

I have a trapeze and only used it a couple of times on my Lillstina and never on my Glimakras.  I do exactly what Sara suggests but have also used a counterbalance bar in place of the trapeze.  I just attach it to the top along with the countermarch.  And it can be moved from the top in the front to the top in the back for holding cords to hold the reed while slaying.  Works like a charm if you have this bar.

Sun, 09/27/2015 - 11:05

Steve P (not verified)

Oh, how I thought it would be wonderful to have a fly shuttle, but space width is truly my biggest challenge. As it is, I will be limited to a 40" wide (weaving width) loom and even then it will be a squeeze to work from the sides. When it's time to move, having proper space for the loom will be a priority.

Sun, 09/27/2015 - 12:02

Steve P (not verified)

With my current jack looms, I used to warp my looms under tension using the beams just as you suggest. But at our local guild, we built a trapeze just for the experience of using one. We have study groups which often put up to 40 yards of warp on a non-section beam at one time. It worked great so I decided to build one at home.

I literally have a trapeze - bar hanging from strong cords run through a pulley system and attached to a very tall ceiling. The cords allow me to lower the height when setting up and again when I get to the end.

Once I get started, I can raise the bar to nearly 9 feet - gives me a LOT of length to allow the waprs to "settle" into a nice even tension. Best part is that I'm not constantly having to adjust the position of the weights which is what slows down the warping of this method.

On my new loom I will have a sectional beam. At the guild we use either the AVL Warping Wheel or a spool rack with tension box to warp up the sectional beams - the AVL WW for shorter warps and the tension box for longer warps. I had never used or watched how a tension box is used until recently....WOW, that was the fastest and slickest method of all - a 30" wide X 40 yard warp 24 epi, start to finish in 1 hour and 10 min. The biggest disadvantage, however, are all those spools of warp which are needed.

My next question relates to understanding the various drawloom options. I'll create a new thread for that. Thanks everyone!

Sun, 09/27/2015 - 17:24

merryamethyst

limitations! my loom is just 36" ww.

best wishes on getting your new loom soon!

 

Sat, 01/23/2016 - 13:07

Steve P (not verified)

I thought I'd follow-up on what I ended up getting and my experiences so far.

Yesterday my new Oxaback Cyrus arrived and it is beautiful. I mean, stunningly beautiful.... in quality design, materials, construction methods, and aesthetics. It truly is one of the finest looms I have ever seen.

I had some reservations about having to order it direct from AKS Snickeri in Sweden because they don't sell the Cyrus through dealers. I was also buying it sight-unseen as I had only experienced older used Oxaback looms and I know several manufacturers have changed their design and methods recently. But the loom is true to the original design/quality and the experience was great.... Snickeri was extremely helpful, welcoming, answered all my many questions, and, they converse very well in English! Once I made a decision on what I wanted, it took about 5 weeks to build and another 4 weeks of shipping/clearing customs before it was delivered to my door. Snickeri recommended both a local customs broker and a regional shipping agent. They were both great and handled all the details of importing the loom. 

Of course, I spent the remainder of yesterday setting up "Helmer" (named after a relative, a bachelor farmer Swede who was durable, dependable, quiet, hard working, friendly and a wise old soul). He's now standing proud with all his beams and treadles in place. I have 20" of clearance on each side of the loom frame (100 cm weaving width). This appears to be sufficiently adequate for my larger sized body to perform all the necessary tasks of setting up and adjusting the loom. For now, I've left off the extension for a future drawloom, but have both the sectional main beam and secondary beam in place.

Today I'll move onto to the more challenging task of hanging the 16 shafts and connecting all the parts with the many cords. Although it will be my very first time at setting up a countermarche, my many months of reading, asking questions and analyzing the process gives me confidence that I can do it. I'm excited to get started, but first wanted to thank everyone for sharing their time and expertise. I'll probably be back with more questions but I'll definitely share my experience and try to help others with their journey. 

Thanks!

Steve P

Sat, 01/23/2016 - 13:08

Steve P (not verified)

I thought I'd follow-up on what I ended up getting and my experiences so far.

Yesterday my new Oxaback Cyrus arrived and it is beautiful. I mean, stunningly beautiful.... in quality design, materials, construction methods, and aesthetics. It truly is one of the finest looms I have ever seen.

I had some reservations about having to order it direct from AKS Snickeri in Sweden because they don't sell the Cyrus through dealers. I was also buying it sight-unseen as I had only experienced older used Oxaback looms and I know several manufacturers have changed their design and methods recently. But the loom is true to the original design/quality and the experience was great.... Snickeri was extremely helpful, welcoming, answered all my many questions, and, they converse very well in English! Once I made a decision on what I wanted, it took about 5 weeks to build and another 4 weeks of shipping/clearing customs before it was delivered to my door. Snickeri recommended both a local customs broker and a regional shipping agent. They were both great and handled all the details of importing the loom. 

Of course, I spent the remainder of yesterday setting up "Helmer" (named after a relative, a bachelor farmer Swede who was durable, dependable, quiet, hard working, friendly and a wise old soul). He's now standing proud with all his beams and treadles in place. I have 20" of clearance on each side of the loom frame (100 cm weaving width). This appears to be sufficiently adequate for my larger sized body to perform all the necessary tasks of setting up and adjusting the loom. For now, I've left off the extension for a future drawloom, but have both the sectional main beam and secondary beam in place.

Today I'll move onto to the more challenging task of hanging the 16 shafts and connecting all the parts with the many cords. Although it will be my very first time at setting up a countermarche, my many months of reading, asking questions and analyzing the process gives me confidence that I can do it. I'm excited to get started, but first wanted to thank everyone for sharing their time and expertise. I'll probably be back with more questions but I'll definitely share my experience and try to help others with their journey. 

Thanks!

Steve P

Sun, 01/24/2016 - 13:50

kerstinfroberg

Of course I recommend you to jump right in and use all shafts for your test drive!

However... if you are not planning to do that, after hanging all shafts (to get all cords in the correct places), take off the shafts not in use. It is so much easier to have just the needed # of shafts in place when weaving! (just my opinion, of course, but based on 35 yrs of CM use)

... when my friend got hers (must be neraly 30 yrs ago, now) we warped the full width (160 cm), used all shafts (16) with a linen 16/1, just to do *all* the difficult things "in one go". I still have (and use) that tablecloth...

Sun, 01/24/2016 - 22:43

Joanne Hall

There are many reasons why Kerstins advice is good.  But one is that when you want to weave with fewer shafts, al those extra shafts and lamms make it harder to to the tie-up, primarily because you have to work around the extra parts and they also obstruct your view of your hands.  So, it is hard to see what you are doing.

Joanne

Mon, 01/25/2016 - 01:20

Steve P (not verified)

Yes, Kerstin and Joanne. That's exactly what I intend to do - keep the loom free of any extraneous parts which aren't being used.... except, perhaps, for the treadles, unless I find they impede my proficiency or accuracy.

I'm intending to put on a long warp to begin with and practice the method of transfering heddles from one shaft to many, and back again, as Becky ( of Vävstuga) shows in her video on dressing a Swedish loom. The first time I saw this I was amazed and excited at the possibilities. Having been used to the limitations of jack looms with rigid harness frames and steel heddles, this was a real eye opener and source of inspiration for me. I especially like the efficiency and accuracy this offers during threading. Do any of you do this? 

Joanne, it's good to know you are still here and participating in these forums. I was saddened to hear you were retiring, thinking we had lost a wonderful treasure and resource. We are most fortunate to have you in our community. Thanks for all your many contributions.... and for being such a nice person, too!!  I hope you know how much you are respected and appreciated. Best wishes!!

Steve P

Mon, 01/25/2016 - 01:41

Joanne Hall

I will continue my teaching schedule, so maybe you will be able to take a class some time.  I am leaving this week for Colorado to teach four workshops.  If anyone is in the Boulder area, stop by and visit Shuttles, Spindles and Skeins, where two of the workshops will be held.

I am teaching tapestry weaving, beyond beginning and a short class on the countermarch.  Then I will teach band weaving for a Scandinavian study group and a Swedish Art Weaves workshop for the Northern Colorado guild. 

My email address has not changed.

Joanne

Mon, 01/25/2016 - 11:22

kerstinfroberg

My spontaneous reaction is: WHY?!?

(but maybe I should check out the idea before having *any* reaction...?)

 

Mon, 01/25/2016 - 11:47

kerstinfroberg

As it looks like I have to buy a $50 video to see it, I will just ask: do you mean she actually places all heddles on one shaft, thread them and THEN moving them into a (say) 16-shaft straight draw?

If so, I wish you good luck, but will probably never try anything like that...

 

ETA: and no, I have never heard of anything like that here in Sweden. Or maybe, but then it was about the draw harness...

Mon, 01/25/2016 - 12:25

ReedGuy

The only time I have moved heddles when threaded was when I wanted one set of heddles on shaft 3 to go onto 2 and those on 4 to go onto 3. It was because I wanted plain weave and I later found out from my book in another draft this was the only way to get it because of the treadling sequence needed to weave the main body. These were 120 heddles per shaft, but out at the edges. Better and much faster than pulling yarn and rethreading. ;)

I only have 8 shafts, but the only parts I remove are shafts. I suspend the lamms with there respective tie-up cords as if they are being tied liked the 4 shafts I'm using. I've never seen the need or advantage to taking unused lamms off. I have removed them one time of course, but never did since.

Mon, 01/25/2016 - 15:05

Joanne Hall

Kerstin, it is more simple than that.  Here in the US, most looms have shafts with sides, so, if you run out of heddles after you have started to thread, it can be nearly impossible to add heddles to a shaft.  So, everyone counts heddles to be sure there are enough.

As you know, in Sweden this is not an issue.  You don't even need to count heddles.  If you run out of heddles on a shaft, you simply add them.  That is all he is referring to.  In the film, Becky shows how to add a bundle of heddles to a shaft and how to tie a bundle of heddles to take them off a shaft.

Joanne

Thu, 01/28/2016 - 02:24

Steve P (not verified)

Actually, I am talking about moving heddles previously threaded on one shaft to other shafts. It’s a process which involves using sticks and cords to separate heddles, one shaft at a time. I’ll need to verify which video it’s on, but watching it makes the process look quite easy and efficient. Of course, I haven't tried it yet and probably won’t until I know I have the loom set up properly and threaded it in the conventional way.

 

What looked appealing to me with this method is the ease of the initial threading of the heddles – the most unappealing part of weaving for me. One simply has to comfortably sit at the loom and thread all the warp ends through all heddles on only one shaft..... quick, mindless work. No counting and recounting, no referencing a draft or losing one’s place in following the draft, no ticking off one’s progress, or forgetting to do so when the phone rings or the kids start rumbling about ....and then having to recount AGAIN, no reaching through a mess of heddles on 16 shafts that are always elusive and bouncing around, no eye, neck, shoulder straining to see or reach the proper heddle on the proper shaft. Just sit in a comfortable position and quickly thread up all the warps, one after another, across only one shaft bar, while watching a movie or conversing with friends. Mindless, stress-free and easy threading!

 

This is how I remember she separated and moved the individual shaft heddles to their respective shafts. First, thread all heddles on the first shaft (closest to the front of the loom). Referencing the draft for the shaft furthest from the front of the loom, use a stick (unattached shaft bar, pick-up stick, warp stick, etc.) to "pick up" the appropriate heddles from the front shaft. It doesn't matter if you pick them from the front or back side of the first shaft - only pick the top of the heddles for now. Just count and pick… on a straight draw with 16 shafts, pick up every 16th heddle that should be on the furthest shaft from the front. When you have them all picked up, the newly picked heddles will still be attached to the front shaft.

 

Lift the newly picked group of heddles on the pick-up stick and suspend the stick above the original shaft so the newly picked heddles are separated and easily distinguished from the heddles on the first shaft. From the front side of the loom, thread a strong cord to pick-up all remaining heddles on the first shaft – weave the cord through the remaining first shaft heddles and in front of the second shaft of heddles. The cord will zig-zag through the first shaft heddles and in front of (no through) the second shaft heddles. Connect the ends of the cord with a knot so the heddles won’t fall off the cord and suspend the cord at each end from above. Take a deep breath and pull out the first shaft. The top of the two sets of heddles will separate, one set hanging on the pick-up stick and the original set hanging on the cord. They will all still have their warps threaded in the correct order.

 

Replace the cord holding the first set of original heddles with the shaft stick and rehang as before.

 

Repeat the process above to separate the bottom of the second set of heddles from the original set of heddles. This step is actually quite fast and easy since they are already separated and don't need to be counted or referenced from the draft.
Transfer the newly picked and separated heddles to a shaft and move to the back of the loom so they are out of the way. Repeat this process for each remaining shaft, working from  draft from back to front of loom. If it's a straight or point draw, no need to count - just pick the next corresponding heddles in the draw.

 

When I think of the number of times I’ve counted, re-counted and confirmed my threading, and still have errors, not to mention the discomfort and frustration involved, this process looked easier, faster and overall a more enjoyable process. I’m definitely going to try it – more than once. Becky has obviously done it enough times that she can do it very quickly. I may not ever be as efficient, but I might enjoy more the process of threading the heddles with this method. And that’s why I weave...... I enjoy the process as much as the final product! I think it is worth trying a few times.

Thu, 01/28/2016 - 02:43

Joanne Hall

Hi Steve,

What you are describing is done to put drawloom units onto the pattern shafts.  So, if you have a ground weave with 6 shafts, you have 6 threads in one unit.  Some drawloom weavers thread these on individual heddles, but some will thread these 6 threads all on one heddle.  That is also shown in the DVD. 

If you are threading 16 shafts, you might simply hang shafts 13,14,15 and 16 and thread those, tying into bundles the ends which go to the other shafts.  Then hang 9,10,11 and 12 and thread those.

But I would not try what you are suggesting, using a drawloom technique to try to make threading easier.  It would not be easier and it would take a lot longer to accomplish.  I don't think I could do it.  It is hard enough to do it with units of threads, but individual threads are hard to see and they would get out of place.  It would be nearly impossible to keep them in order.

Joanne

Thu, 01/28/2016 - 15:42

Steve P (not verified)

Hi Joanne,

Thanks for your comments, and for clarification on it's intended use for drawloom units - no wonder I couldn't find it on the Dressing Your Loom the Swedish Way DVD, it's on the Swedish Drawloom DVD.

I appreciate your suggestion to try separating the warps into groups according to shafts. I'll try that.

At this point, however, I'm still going to try it on regular shafts, just to satisfy my curiosity. I've been thinking about this method for far too long to not at least try it. As you infer, I might be disappointed. I'll report back on my experience and let you know how it went.

Steve

Thu, 01/28/2016 - 20:31

kerstinfroberg

thank you, Steve - I wish you the best of luck.

However... just reading your description pushed me into the most written-in-stone-conservative camp... I may be wrong, but the bare thought of "picking" an advanced twill from one (threaded) shaft makes me dizzy (and conservative: if "they" thought it best to thread on the "correct" shaft, I will too.

ANyway: I do wish you the best of luck, but for myself I wish a good story/description (illustrated, pls?!?) of your progress...

Have fun (and don't mind little old Swe ladies, be they conservative or not!)!

Sat, 01/30/2016 - 03:22

Steve P (not verified)

Just a quick note.... I was reading in Lillemor Johansson's book, Damask and Opphämta and found a reference to the process/method I described above (page 137 of the English version). She specifically suggests this method for when many shafts are used and is illustrating the technique using typical two-bar shafts, not single units on one shaft bar as Becky does in her Swedish drawloom dvd. 

I'm anxious to try this, especially with this latest reference using two-bar pattern shafts which are just like regular shafts. There must be some benefit to it, and probably more than just when using a lot of shafts.

More to be reported as this adventure unfolds.....

Steve P