Hi,

I am interested in more complex weaving and want to upgrade from an 8 harness to a 16 harness dobby loom.  I am most interested in an AVL manual dobby, but I have also looked at the Weavebird compu dobby.  Can anyone advise me on the pros and cons of these two looms?  Are there other 16+ harness looms that you would recommend?  Thanks in advance for your input!

Jules

Comments

Thu, 10/30/2014 - 15:52

Sara von Tresckow

Manual dobby looms have become sort of outdated. The lags (bars to be pegged for the dobby chain) are expensive and must fit correctly to have the loom work well. The biggest drawback of a manual dobby (and there ARE workarounds out there) is that your "pattern file" - represented by a painstakingly constructed dobby chain disappears as soon as you weave a new pattern - or you will need hundreds of lags in order to store chains used frequently.

If you were to consider the AVL compudobby you could save your weaving files electronically for later reproduction or modification - as you will also be able to with the Weavebird.

I personally use a 16 shaft Toika dobby mounted on a countermarche loom that I have owned longer than I have the dobby head. I love its simplicity and accuracy - also VERY  easy on the body as it is activated by only an industrial foot pedal.

Sat, 11/01/2014 - 15:49

Jules W

Hi Sara,

Thank you for your insight.  That totally makes sense!  So, with no experience with a compudobby, how do I figure out the best option for purchase?  Is your Toika dobby mounted on a Toika loom?  I'm not sure how to look at the components separately and know if they work together. From your own experience and conversations with other weavers, can you recommend any particular brands or caution me against any?  I'm looking at used looms, but it is still a big financial commitment and I'm nervous.  :)

Thanks again!

Sat, 11/01/2014 - 18:47

Sara von Tresckow

I am a supporter of countershed looms - they simply make a wider range of fabrics than those with rising shed only.

The following dobby looms have that countershed:

Toika

Louet

LeClerc

All of the above are rated highly by users. The Toika unit has the advantage that it can be mounted on most standard model countermarche looms - those from Toika, Glimakra, Varpa, Oxaback - for others, you'd need to contact Webs who sells them. In my case, the dobby head was literally "dropped" onto an existing Finnish countermarche (no longer made) and up and running in less than an hour as I'd purchased it used and the shafts and cords were already assembled. It has been running accurately for me since 2009.

The Louet Megado is well received by weavers who use it - the company supports the looms and they are pretty much trouble free.

The Leclerc Weavebird is well liked as well - their countershed is formed in a newer way, but produces good fabric.

The AVL dobbies are all rising shed - they do well with medium and light fabrics, but are not able to do firm household linens and other tight weaves as well as countershed models. The AVL dobby looms have many separate parts and from comments I've read, need a bit more watchfulness and maintenance than other brands.

One possible advantage of the Toika dobby is that if you are able to find a used standard countermarche loom with shafts and treadles to convert, if, eventually that compudobby becomes obsolete or defective, you can always put the loom back to weaving good fabric the old fashioned way. Not a reflection on technology per se, but considering how many operating systems and media readers we've gone through in the last 2 decades, obsolescence is always a possibility.

Sat, 11/01/2014 - 20:38

MMs-and-OOs-Ha…

I respectfully disagree with what you have to say about AVL Compu-Dobby and dobby AVLs with dobby bar chains. If necessary it is no big deal to convert a Compu-Dobby back to a dobby chain system. Part of the difference between the AVL rising shaft looms and some of the Swediish/Norwegian looms I have seen is the difference between the back support/rollers and the heddles. It surely depends on the loom but most contramarch looms I have seen, there is a longer distance. This length affects the geometry of the shed. The sum is that a contramarch loom might be more suited to a weft-dominant cloth. The AVL is more warp dominant. So .... an AVL might be less suited to a rug or weft-dominated weave structure but I have absolutely *no problems* weaving household linens, upholstery etc. in 30 years of weaving on my AVL looms. I posit my commentaries with the fact that I have never woven on a contramarch loom but I have seen many examples and talked to weavers who use them at the Weaver's Barn in Vista, CA.
Sat, 11/01/2014 - 21:54

Dawn McCarthy

Mms & OOs I use a countermarch and AVL Compudobby - Love them both equally!  The AVL has exceptional tension and I have woven many types of fabrics on it, same with my countermarche.  I actually relinquished a competing computerized loom with an adjustable floating front beam as I preferred the AVL.  I have woven on industrial and very simple looms and found my own preferences.  Yes the AVL has a rising shed but works beautifully, even for heavier weight work although for heavy rugs I will always use the CM.

If you are using sound weaving methods - you will find your favorite loom that fits your comfort level and requirements.

Dawn

bewove.com

Sun, 11/02/2014 - 12:52

MMs-and-OOs-Ha…

Yes and I believe each loom has its plus and minuses. It isn't a competition really. I am in awe when someone takes a Glimakra and adds the shafts and length to make it into a drawloom. Personally I am way beyond preferring or recommending a particular loom. Weavers deal with what they have and make beautiful cloth. The elastic tensioning and length between the fell line and the warp on an AVL doesn't make it a rug loom.
Sun, 11/02/2014 - 00:45

Jules W

Thank you Sara for explaining in more detail the things I am just beginning to learn.  Now I have a lot to think about as I search for the right loom!

Sun, 11/02/2014 - 00:47

Jules W

Thanks to everyone for their input and details on WHY one loom might be better than another.  It helps me consider the type of weaving I do and how to approach the purchase decision.  Thank you!

Sun, 11/02/2014 - 20:43

Bonnie Inouye (not verified)

Jules, while you are contemplating different brands of multishaft looms, I suggest you compare weaving programs if you are not already using weaving software. Your interest in complex woven cloth suggests that you will want to create your own drafts. Weaving software is very helpful, even when using a loom with many treadles or with a mechanical dobby loom.

Bonnie Inouye

Tue, 11/04/2014 - 15:02

Jules W

Hi Bonnie,

I'm not using software yet as I only have an 8 shaft loom at the moment.  I know of Weavepoint and Fiberworks, but I haven't used either one.  What program do you recommend and why?  Thanks for your input on this!

Jules

Wed, 11/05/2014 - 22:52

Bonnie Inouye (not verified)

Jules, weaving software is quite useful for weavers with 8-shaft looms, especially if you want to create your own drafts, add borders to a draft, test different colors, try several different tie-ups before you tie the treadles, test several different treadling sequences on the same threading, check for maximum float length, zoom out for a distance view, get a heddle count... and print the threading with the colors and shaft numbers. For a start, that is.

I use both Fiberworks and WeavePoint. This topic has been discussed before, here and in other, more active weaving groups online. Each program has its own strengths. You can download a demo and give it a test drive.

Bonnie Inouye