I could use a little help thinking this through.  I am a production weaver and just came up with a new plaited twill shawl that I have added to my line that is selling like hot cakes.  I am using the draft from Strickler's eight shaft pattern book, p.101 #360.  I weave very fast and have gotten it down to a great rhythm, but the fact that my right leg is responsible for eight treadles and I am stretching it so far is causing me knee problems.  It doesn't make sense, from a production point of view, to change the tie ups (plus, it would make me NUTTY).

 

While I am lusting after a dobby, and I did spend plenty of time yesterday searching for one, unless the perfect one comes to me soon and at a great price, it's not a realistic possibility.

 

I have been looking more carefully at the plaited twills and was thinking of trying one that is a double 2-tie structure, but it seems to me that it would create a fabric that may not have the sensational drape that the others do.  Has anyone explored this?  I will do some sampling, but I find that until I weave something in it's entirety, it's hard to get a real sense of what the drape will do and my next craft show is coming up quickly.

 

Thanks!

Comments

Fri, 09/19/2014 - 18:58

Sara von Tresckow

Not sure if this would help, but placing what is listed as treadle 2 where the last treadle (10) is would spread your alternation of 1 and 2 to the two outside treadles. Then split the 8 treadles on the inside between both feet.

That gives you a sort of "walking the treadles" that doesn't make one knee extend too far from center.

Fri, 09/19/2014 - 19:36

Dena (not verified)

Thanks for the suggestion.  I was up late last night thinking about this possibility and just tried to map it out.  It seems to me that I would need to then go left, left, right, right.  Am I missing something?  It may take a while to get used to not going left, right, left, right and a bit harder to keep my place and balance, but it would give me the structure I want with the loom I have and save my knees.

Fri, 09/19/2014 - 23:00

Sara von Tresckow

Done the way I suggested, you would treadle

1, 2

10,3

1, 4

10,5

1, 6

10,7

1, 8 

10,9 - and back again

This becomes a more complicated way of doing overshot with the tabbies on the outside.

With the double 2-tie mentioned, remember that a woven structure is not the tieup, threading or treadling per se, but the INTERLACEMENTS. Try both ways in a computer program and look at the interlacement square. If the 2-tie method looks better for your legs and the interlacements match the one in figure 360, you will NOT have any difference in hand or drape.

Fri, 09/19/2014 - 23:25

Peg.Cherre (not verified)

Ok, Dena.  I came up with an alternate.  Think of treadles #5&6 as your 'home treadles', just like the F&J keys are on the keyboard.  They are your tabbies.  Now alternately move your feet outward.  So it's 6-7, 5-4, 6-8, 5-3, 6-9, 5-2, 6-10, 5-1.  I've attached an image of the tie up.  I can send it in pcx format to you directly if you'd like.  It's not a beautiful treadling, but it will save your knees.

braided twill-alternate tie up & treadling

Fri, 09/19/2014 - 23:59

Bonnie Inouye (not verified)

While a double two-tie threading can be used to produce a tied weave, it can also be used to make plaited twills. The latter have the same structure as other plaited twills. Do you have the book on double two-tie by Clotilde Barrett and Eunice Smith? It is a nice book and there are used copies around which should not be too expensive. It's in many guild libraries as well.

This threading is sort of a trick when used for twills. It turns out that a bunch of nice fancy twill drafts can be woven when every 4th thread is on shaft 1 and another such group on shaft 2.

When considering the role of structure in the drape of a fabric, what matters is the actual structure as seen in the drawdown, not the threading or the tie-up or the treadling.

Bonnie Inouye

Sun, 09/21/2014 - 22:02

Dena (not verified)

Thank you Peg.  It's similar to what I was thinking, but I love putting the "first two" treadles on the inside rather than the outside.  I will give it a try and see if I can get the rhythm.

 

Sarah and Bonnie, thank you...I think I understand what you are both saying, but I do need to spend some time with both the computer and Clotilde Barrett and Eunice Smith's book.  I expect it is hiding somewhere on my shelf.  I haven't yet fully gotten my head around how the plaited twills work (the danger of "recipe" drafts) but I am loving the look and feel of what I am doing.

Tue, 09/23/2014 - 03:03

Dena (not verified)

I couldn't find the book but will order it soon.  I did spend some time on the computer.  What I tried was turning the draft since my treadling was looking quite a bit like the double two tied threadings.  What I got was very similar to the double two tied threadings and using less treadles.  Am I on the right track here?

Unfortunately, even with switching my treadles around, it is all still giving my knees quite a beating so my next shawl warp will go back to a four shaft wall of troy.  In the meantime, I am holding a vision of the perfect dobby coming to me soon.

Tue, 09/23/2014 - 13:54

Sara von Tresckow

Dobby looms can cause repetetive issues as well. When I'm  cranking out yardage on my Toika dobby (small industrial foot switch) the repeated rocking foot motion leads to increased instances of nightime muscle cramps in the calves. Fly shuttles can cause problems in arms and shoulders.

Short of a power loom, any solution risks repeated motion issues.

Tue, 09/23/2014 - 19:57

Bonnie Inouye (not verified)

There are a few 4-shaft plait drafts you might try, if using 4 instead of 8 is helpful. Sometimes knees need a rest! And there are simple exercises for strength to help your knees. Good luck!