Hello,

I've had no official weaving training and I occasionally come upon issues I'm not sure are issues or if they are how I might solve them.

Currently I'm working on a plaid/tartan piece (cotton, 18 EPI, 7m warp) that I've just wound on the loom.  Its cotton, and from the moment I started winding it onto the loom i had problems with tangles in the warp, and had to comb each section as I wound it.

Before I remove the warp from my warping board I put ties around it in areas so as to stop it slipping but this doesn't seem to help. ( The ties are roughly 20cm apart.)

Am I missing something?

I'm quite patient, and if combing as I wind is just what has to happen then thats fine.  But i do plan on working with fine wool in the near future and would hate to have to comb tangles out of that ~ if thats even possible.  As i imagine wool would break and not take to my combing very well.

Any suggestions or tips would be welcome.

Thanks

Chris

 

 

Comments

Fri, 07/11/2014 - 12:49

sequel (not verified)

Tangles are far more likely in warps that are threaded front to back.  The second most frequent cause is uneven or unbalanced  twist in the yarn.  Winding the warp with the thread going in the same direction around both the first peg and last peg on the warping board will increase or decrease twist in the warp yarn. 

 

Combing will help separate the tangles, but may also contribute to uneven warp tension, since some threads will be handled differently than others.

Fri, 07/11/2014 - 13:27

BCB

I'm about to dress my loom for the first time without using a dummy warp so I'm very interested in the responses to this post. Would a rough sley help the tangling issue?

Fri, 07/11/2014 - 13:48

christophermichael

I go back to front~ have never tried front first.

i did notice that combing appeared to stretch some yarn... 

twist in the yarn may be the problem.  i've mixed cottons.  and as i swapped colours while winding they may have changed directions at different intervals...

things to think about

Thanks! 

Fri, 07/11/2014 - 15:16

sally orgren

Are you applying any kind of tension to the warp as you wind onto the back beam?

This can be done in a variety of ways, but I usually hang water bottles off each 2" of warp. The same amount of water in each bottle. This way you know the tension is consistent across the whole warp.

Start near the floor when attaching the water bottles to the bouts, and as you beam, they will rise upward toward the breast beam. Lower back down as needed.

Also, I never comb a warp. That just produces more tangles in the part yet to be combed and can stretch out individual yarns. Instead, I sharply snap/tug on the whole warp bout, while under tension. It's amazing how the tangles shake out! With cotton, you can snap and tug very hard.

Fri, 07/11/2014 - 15:30

laurafry

Although many people say they never beam with tension, I always do. You might be interested in the video clips I've uploaded to you tube (lauraannfry1 is my user name) There are a number of DVDs available showing various methods for dressing the loom, including mine, which will be released this summer. Personally I use back to front, rough sley a reed rather than use a raddle and beam under tension. My warps vary from 10" to 24" on my Leclerc and are generally 11 meters long. Weaving doesn't have to be a struggle...you just have to discover what works best for you given your space available, loom, and physical abilities and challenges. Cheers Laura
Sat, 07/12/2014 - 13:42

sandra.eberhar…

I agree with Laura, always keep the end under tension.  I also use B to F, and I use a large roller mounted above the front of the loom as a trapeze or valet to warp from.  I have read that you should never comb a warp, and when I start to see threads cross I shake the warp and hit it with a yardstick.  I find that some yarns are easier than others, and one of the worst is rug warp.  I made my rug loom into a sectional in order to avoid tangled long warps.  I find fine wool one of the easier threads to work with, the threads seem to slide by each other without catching and tangling.

Sat, 07/12/2014 - 13:56

sandra.eberhar…

One reason for tangles that was mentioned was uneven twist, which may apply if you are using differnt yarns or unevenly spun yarn.  Another cause is uneven tension when the warp was wound on the board or mill.  I do not trust my fingers to apply even tension to the threads as I wind. (Some people can do this well, but not me.)  I use only the tension applied to the threads by the thread coming from the cone through the eye of the cone stand, and hold my hand in a rigid claw to direct it to the mill.  If this does not supply enough tension (for very fine, wiry linen for example) I mount a tension box that I ordinarily use for sectional warping to supply tension.  I want very light tension, just enough to hold the threads in place on the mill.

Sat, 07/12/2014 - 14:39

La La

This may sound like a dumb question, but how do you tie on the water bottles. Just tie on with the warp, or do you used elastics ?? or somthing else. Thanks.
Sat, 07/12/2014 - 16:11

laurafry

I use a cord tied into a loop then larks head it to the chain. A small S hook then attaches the water jug to the warp. For details go to my blog and click on the Warping Valet link. My blog is http://laurasloom.blogspot.com Or my DVD will be available later this summer. Cheers Laura
Sat, 07/12/2014 - 17:35

sandra.eberhar…

I use old gallon vinegar jugs (pickles! pickles!) that have a handle on them.  I pull a loop of warp through the handle, and put a stick in (or a wooden spoon or a warp frame peg or whatever) and pull the loop tight against the handle.  For slippery warps, I pull another loop through the first loop, then the stick.

Sun, 07/13/2014 - 13:22

ReedGuy

I think the heart of the troubles is mixed yarns and trying to tension them evenly on one beam. Seems to me you ran into this trouble earlier this year. You would need another beam (supplemental) for a second yarn. Your going to run into the same thing as before with areas of your weave going crazy. ;)

I to find wool yarn the least troublesome. You wouldn't maybe think so with the 'hairy' nature of the stuff, but it is the easiest fibre I have used so far. And there are lots of fibres I have not used yet. I don't comb warp either, makes a worst situation worst I think. Try it with fine cotton and you have a mess of knots.

Sun, 07/13/2014 - 15:07

Artistry

The other problem I've encountered painfully recently is not having the tubes ( as in Swedish yarns) hanging horizontally when I wind off to the warping board. Having the tubes vertically adds additional twist. I was very surprised to learn this because I had been doing it vertically for years no problem. Until this one 10/2 cotton warp. It was a mess. I was advised by many experts on this thread, to hang it horizontally, plus my friend who has a COE in spinning Master Level explained to me how the extra twist could occur. Generally ,I agree, one should not comb a warp.the methods described above have worked for me. However this 10/2 was the worst warp I've had in 40 years of weaving so I did comb it with a hair pick. The tension was fine for the weaving and it was 10 yards.
Sun, 07/13/2014 - 22:19

Bonnie Inouye (not verified)

I am currently winding a warp from some chains that I made over a decade ago. I did not have any large S hooks in the mountain cabin, so I am using carabiners with water bottles. The carabiners work very well and we have them on hand for rafting trips.

Sun, 07/13/2014 - 22:33

christophermichael

thanks everyone for your helpful replies!
the cottons do seem to catch on oneanother, and i do have the cones coming from beneath the warping board. perhaps this doesn't help.

thanks for your blog links laura, they were helpful in imagining how the bottle tying works~

I'm about to finish threading, so I'll see how my combing has effected the yarn.  I also have decided I need to fix my warping board as the wooden frame isn't tight enough, and as i wind it pulls in ever so slightly but effects the tension on the warp thats already wound, which I think might be causing more problems than I think.

It's facinating how an error in one step of the process can become a small nightmare later down the track.

Thanks

Chris

 

Sun, 07/13/2014 - 23:03

sandra.eberhar…

I think that if you are using enough tension to pull the pegs on your warp frame in, you are using too much tension, and yes, that difference in tension can cause tangles; some threads are under tension and some are not.