I have a 20 yard warp on my loom currently and am running into major tension problems. I am weaving 4 pieces of fabric each about 34" wide on the loom and 4 yards long. I am halfway through the first article and several individual threads are clearly loose. I've had to unweave several times to correct skipped threads and have added weight to about 12 threads at the back of the loom to improve the tension. Here is the question, should I unwind the warp from the back beam once I have completed the first article and rebeam it or continue to weight loose threads as I go? I used the yank and crank method which has worked well many times with shorter warps. Not sure if it's the length of the warp that did me in or the 8/2 cotton or what. It doesn't matter what happened, I will NOT yank and crank again. Any thoughts, ideas, or suggestions greatly appreciated. I am afraid I will have many errors and skipped threads if I continue to weave the warp as it is now and I have at least 12 yards of weaving to go! TIA, Claudia

Comments

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 14:04

Michael White

We put on 17 yard (8/2) dish towel warps all the time without any tension problems. Do you have help putting on this warp, are you doing this by yourself? Yanking sometime will force the threads down between the warp. You have been weaving for sometimes is this something that happen because you were in a rush or tired? I would pull the whole warp forward through the heddles, reed and have someone hold tension as you rewind the warp beam.

 

Michael 

 

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 01:10

pammersw

And put something like cardboard,  well wider than the warp, between every few layers. Otherwise the threads falling off just gets worse. 

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 01:33

Claudia Segal (not verified)

It is something new. I usually have no problem with putting the warp on by myself and did so using sticks in between every third layer. When I rebeam it how do you suggest I add the tension on the warp threads? Should I have someone help hold the threads in bundles in front of the reed as I wind it on and add sticks?
Mon, 11/18/2013 - 02:01

Michael White

yanking too hard pulled the thread down 3 layers. In this case someone helping would help. If after you rebeam and have a few loose threads I would wrap them around tee pins and put in some filler and restart weaving.Here is a picture from Ravelry on "Dressing a Macomber loom"  http://www.ravelry.com/discuss/macomber-looms/2534365/1-25#10

 

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 03:14

LindaHahn

I  attach qt. water bottles to a width of about 2-3 inches all across the warp, then wind, and keep shifting the bottles down as the warp is rolled on. It provides even tension all across the warp and can be done alone. Of course, roll onto paper, spacers or whatever you would customarily use to prevent wound warp packing into itself. 

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 12:07

Michael White

I was thinking about this last night. Since you have already wove one towel. You could cut off that towel and retie after rewinding the beam.Michael

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 12:52

Erica

Claudia,

I'm with Michael, is there any reason you can't cut off and retie on the next section. It may be something you have to do throughout. 

I would also recommend cutting off the first item, winding everything onto the cloth beam, and winding back onto the warp beam with sticks between every layer. I use the crank and yank method all the time, including on a 12 yard warp. I use sticks between every layer. Slipping down three layers on such a long warp will cause issues. Particularly on the first layers and this is the longest circumfrence.

I hope this all helps.

Cheers,

Erica

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 13:35

Claudia Segal (not verified)

Thanks all. Not sure I have enough extra yardage to cut off the first piece and retie it. I allowed 1 yard extra for loom waste and 1 yard for sample. My sample cam eout gerat and I took it off the loom and retied. I'm using a Glimakra Standard and fine 36" loom waste is about right. I need enough warp for 4 pieces each over 4 yards long. I take it the consensus is to finish the first piece and then bring the entire warp forward onto the cloth beam and rewind under tension using sticks or paper in every layer. Thanks again for your help. I'l keep you posted. Claudia
Mon, 11/18/2013 - 14:00

Dena (not verified)

I use the "yank and crank" method on very long and very wide warps without problems (32 yds long, up to 54" wide).  I am wondering if your problem is with individual threads or are there larger sections or your warp becoming looser than other sections.  The most important thing that I find, as I am beaming, is that I watch the warp really carefully as it goes from the back beam, around the warp beam.  Sometimes threads dangle back there and if they do, I pick them up and individually move them foward. 

Unbeaming something well can be just as hard as beaming it well.  I find that while I can beam things alone, I can't unbeam them alone...if any the threads are pulled differently, you can a mess behind the heddles.  If you go with this method, get a second person working with you!  Two more questions....are you weaving under a fair amount of tension (the warp springs back when you pat it)...8/2 cotton is stretchy enough that if your loose threads are only mildly loose, that could help.  The other thing that I am wondering is if the problem seems to be getting better or worse as you work.  Sometimes one length of warp has problems, but the rest of it is fine.  If things do appear to be cleaning themselves out, you can weave an inch of waste in between pieces and pull the loose threads into that waste.

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 14:05

Dena (not verified)

If the problem is individual threads, you can try adding a series of lease sticks that go thread by thread in back.  If two aren't enough, try four.  Often times the problems will stay behind the lease sticks. 
Mon, 11/18/2013 - 14:49

sequel (not verified)

Front-to-Back warping leaves opportunities for the warp knots to slip or come untied entirely.  And you know that can't be good...

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 15:41

Dena (not verified)

I have watched many, many people warp their looms and seen incredible disasters and graceful perfection in both front to back and back to front.  Both have their strengths and drawbacks and both, with experience, will work well.
Mon, 11/18/2013 - 16:27

sally orgren

I have done this more than once — including within the last year. Keep any household critters upstairs and away from the loom when you do it. 

Put water bottles (weights) on the bouts, so they pull down to the front as you release tension slowly, and that will help keep the warp from binding up at the heddles. You might consider removing the lease sticks for this step. Up to you. You may want to reintroduce them when you go back to rebeam, as a secondary tensioning device. Cotton should hold up to this rebeaming process fine.

Dena is right, it will be a bit tricky — so helpful to have a buddy to watch the front while you watch the back and the warp as it feeds into the back of the heddles.

I would not chain the warp, just let it pile into a tub or box, etc. as it layers down at the foot of the front of the loom. Try not to fuss with it. It will beam back on in the order it lays down into the box/tub.

Putting consistent weight on the warp when beaming makes sense. Crank 'n Yank works for a while, until it doesn't. Sure, some folks can make it work, but I want a consistent, reliable, fool-proof method. After 10 years and mostly successful short or long warps with CnY (11 yards was the longest), I switched to a weighted warp and have never looked back. I can beam much faster and with more confidence, no second guessing.

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 17:57

pammersw

After you've rebeamed, you may have to cut and retie a few warp threads, but you can do that in the fringe area between items so shouldn't be much waste.

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 20:10

Claudia Segal (not verified)

Things have really deteriorated!  I can hardly weave 3" and I have so many skipped threads I have to unweave and start over.  I have about 30 threads weighted individually behind the loom and I'm unable to weave for an inch without errors.

What if I were to gather 20-30 threads together and weight them. I was thinking about warp weighted looms and if I could do that by unwinding a yard or two of warp and then weighting separate sections with water bottles or something with some weight to it off the back, not warp, beam.  

Could I get more even tension and be able to weave for more than an inch at a time?  I am in such a pickle and I have completed 3 yards with 2.5 to go in the first piece.  Once I complete the first piece then I can rebeam the warp and correct the problems.

Any thoughts on this?

Claudia, desparate in DC

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 20:13

Dena (not verified)

Is there ANY way you can let go of getting all four pieces off of that warp, let go of the one you are making now and rebeam it?  Sometimes it's just a case of diminishing returns.

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 20:17

Claudia Segal (not verified)

I spent 4 days winding the warp because it's an inspiration warp taken from a painting I saw in Sedona.  It's a commission and my buyer loves the warp!

Here's a picture

This is the sample with a variety of wefts.

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 20:53

sequel (not verified)

I see from your sample that you have a multicolor warp.  Is all the yarn from the same manufacturer?  Is one color/brand more troublesome than the others?  Of course knowing this isn't going to help your current warp, but it might answer the question as to "why".  You can also pull the excess toward the breast beam and pin it to the web.  When it comes off the loom, you clip and weave the ends in as though it were a repair warp thread.

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 21:12

Claudia Segal (not verified)

Yes, it's all UKI yarn and I doubt anything is wrong with the yarn, it's the yarnworker who has a problem, ie, me.

I put the lease sticks in and it's going a bit better.  I'll try pulling some threads forward and pinning them.

I was trying to avoid that since it always shows a bit when you do a repair and the threads in question are in the center of the article.

Claudia

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 22:07

pammersw

You could space them out a bit rather than doing the repairs all at once.

If it's any consolation,  the scarf I'm weaving now, #3 on a long weft, was having the same problem. 

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 23:01

Claudia Segal (not verified)

It's always helpful to know I have company in my misery. 

The lease sticks have helped. I may need to confront whether or not to rebeam it or just keep adding lease sticks.  I finally made progress and wove 18" this afternoon.  Yipee!

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 23:59

Sara von Tresckow

You're weaving again - just a couple of tips for reference. You can skip up to two rounds using sticks. More than that is asking for issues later. If you do not have enough sticks for a long warp, use newspaper or similar for the last rounds - putting the paper between every layer.

When advancing on a long warp, do so in small increments and do not let the back beam "jump" so the warp hangs loose. Just ease the warp forward without letting it go slack. This helps to keep tension even.

It is not advisable to hang weights off the back of the loom. Better is to work the slack to the front and pin it to the fell line. Otherwise, the thread continues to be slack, possibly leaving the neighboring threads looking slack because the weight is now tensioning that original thread more than it was originally.

Weaving slowly on a section with loose threads, passing the shuttle very carefully will often catch up some of the slackers. Yes, you lose your "rhythm" but gain accuracy in the fabric, which, after all is your purpose in weaving.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 00:15

Claudia Segal (not verified)

Thanks Sara I'll start bringing those loose threads forward and treating them as repair threads. Once this section is done, how should I proceed? Should I wind it onto the cloth beam and rebeam the remaining 14 yards under tension and adding more sticks or paper? The lease sticks were a good call Dena. But how do I proceed? TIA
Tue, 11/19/2013 - 05:11

pammersw

I pulled it all forward,  straightened and tightened it as much as I could, using cardboard as I wound onto the front beam so as to not create a problem there. Then I rebeamed with cardboard onto the back. Cut and retied the warps that were still too loose, and finished that scarf.

Now I'm rethreading the heddles and resleying the reed, so I can get the tension just right. If you need to do that later, after the second one, I've heard of tying the warp to another yarn that actually goes to the beam, so as to not waste too much of it.  That might work for you in this case, since you don't have a lot of warp to spare.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 19:00

Sara von Tresckow

I sometimes need to wind forward and then backward again. I've usually done just  or 3 yards at a time, rolling things gently forward and then paying very careful attention as I'm rewinding. Probably just carefully nursing what you're currently working on and going slowly and gently will help as much as anything. 

If the slack isn't inches of extra yarn, you will be utterly amazed at what slowly inserting your shuttle while making sure you're not skipping threads will improve things - WITHOUT any serious maneuvering. Those threads will begin to even out and if there are not too many that cut through you might even find that in a yard or so you're weaving as planned.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:54

Queezle

I have no other suggestions, but just want to say that your warp is lovely -- I've spent time in Sedona, and understand your desire to finish this project.  Best of luck.