My very first warp is now passing through reed and heddles and it is a nightmare; sat too long, is tangled, is sticky wool thread, etc etc.

As I undo knots, inch by inch groups of ends, I think (some things not fit to share) about ways to avoid this happening in the future. At the moment all the thought threads seem to return to the concept of retain tension on an ordered group of threads.

Essentially I am questioning the process of using a warping board/mill, chaining, moving to the loom etc. What if the warp could stay on the board/mill and, remaining under tension, then be fed directly onto the loom. That is, the warp is wound as usual but once wound can be directly fed into reed, heddles and onto rear the apron. The warping board/mill becomes the means of keeping tension in the process of warping the loom, somehow releasing warp as required.

What I am asking for is a brainstorming session. Is this possible? Doable? How? No idea too crazy to consider, no nay-saying until all the ideas are on the table. Then logic and reality can have their essential place.

Ideas anyone??

Hakim

Comments

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 09:44

Erica

Hakim,

I remember those days. You are correct having the threads under tension until they go on the loom can be very helpful. Have you tried using kite sticks? This is a method I learned from Peggy Oesterkcamp's book which really helped me perfect my back to front warping technique. The other option is to use Laura Fry's warping valet method. 

I would try these methods before trying to invent a new one,why reinvent the wheel, if one works for you!

Cheers,

Erica

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 10:49

BoyLearner

Both of those look like good options. Thank you.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 11:19

Artistry

BoyLearner, I am just not sure how it worked but AVL used to have a piece of equipment called a warping Drum. I believe it was used to warp under good tension , each rotation was 1 yard,then beamed directly from the drum. Maybe a drum shape hung up high, so the threads don't get in the way. In my AVL the lease sticks could then hang in front of the reed, I could sit inside my loom thread the reed then the heddles then standing at the back of my loom tie on the back beam . It would all be backwards ( in threading pattern) however it's a thought. There would be friction going through all those heddles. Could be used for smooth yarns of medium sett, I think. Good luck with your creative energy!
Fri, 03/15/2013 - 12:30

kerstinfroberg

One warping drum description can be found in Luther Hooper: Hand-loom weaving, which can be downloaded from handweaving.net - link to hooper.  Peggy O also has something about drums on her website, but unfortunately without pictures.

Another type of valet, one that is not fastened to anything, is described on my blog, here.

Kati Meek has described another method of making what she calls a trapeze. From what I understand it consists of several more pieces, that also need to be clamped to the loom.

Andreas Möller from Hamburg has deviced some other variant, which may be described on his website. I have not seen it, but as I understood it he puts some planks here and there inside the loom and routes the warp through them to apply tension.

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 12:52

BoyLearner

You are adding fuel to the creative fires. Thank you both very much. Lots of links too to keep me busy. I like it!

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 13:44

SallyE (not verified)

One other option is to use a trapeze.   Kati Reeder Meek has a book about doing this, and some other things.   It's not available on Amazon but you can get it from her at her web site.  Just google her.

I build my own and have one on each loom.   It works very well, especially if you warp by yourself.  The book is called:

Warp with a Trapeze and Dance with Your Loom

 

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 14:29

sally orgren

You don't have to keep tension from the warp board process to the loom, but once you start dressing the the loom—yes. I hang water bottles off the front.

First, to clarify, your warp does not have to be under tight tension when winding onto the board. You don't want it drapey loose, but it should be easy to slide off the pegs, and the pegs should bow in at the ends of the pegs with a warp on the board.

Use choke ties if you wish, and certainly secure the cross. Starting at the bottom of the warp board, I slide the warp bout off the last peg and drop into a ziplock baggie. (Zero tension!)

When I get to the top of the warp board, I slide the warp bout cross direclty onto the lease sticks and the loop at the top peg directly onto the rod that will be lashed to the back of my loom.

When all the bouts have been moved from the warp board to the lease sticks and rod, I lash the rod to the back of the loom, part the heddles (to give a clear path through the loom back to front), pass the "baggie bouts" through the castle, and weight them with plastic water bottles off the front of the loom. Usually 2 pounds per 2-3" bouts.

I slide the raddle under the warp along the back beam, clamp it into place, and spread the warp in the raddle, using the cross at the lease stick as a guide. I put rubber bands over the raddle nails to hold everything down when beaming.

For warping, I don't touch the warp *except* at the front of the loom. I don't "pick at it", don't use a hair pick or dog comb, etc. I just snap each warp bout sharply at the front of the loom, and/or give it a good soilid tug until the warp bout strings are looking aligned. I anchor a water bottle to the bout, just above the floor, with a clothes pin.

When ready, I beam at the back and watch the cross. If a "hand cuff" is starting to form between warps, I will go back to the front and "giddy up" the bout like you would rein a horse. Only if the handcuff is formed and needs to be broken will I mess with anything at the cross or beyond (between the cross and the warp take up beam). 

One other thought—if beaming a warp is extremely difficult and tangly, perhaps you might consider your sett is too close, or your warp is too dense. Our guild just had a doubleweave workshop, and more than one participant wound 4X what they needed instead of 2. Those that wound too much all noticed that their 5/2 cotton warp was especially difficult to beam, even under tension or using a trapeze. 

I have posted photos here at Weavo of my modified water bottle method, so you should be able to find mages. I can vouch for Kati Meek's trapeze—I have seen it demonstrated several times. If I had more studio space, I would have one in a heart beat! 

Stick with it, getting good at warping pays off tremendously—

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 15:02

ReedGuy

Boyleaner, it's good to explore other methods, but do not abandoned the tried and true methods that have been written, illustrated in books and taught for a very long time. You have to practice and eventually you will settle on a method. When your doing the 'learn as you go' method it is going to be longer than working with someone who knows. Just the plain and simple of it. Right now I have using a sectional for fine warps, but that does not mean I have abandoned the warping mill. In fact if I was to warp for a 2-ply 6/2 wool blanket tomorrow I would be on my warping mill and using my raddle mighty quick.  :) I am exploring the sectional because fine cotton is a pain for me to work with, with it ending in a mess of knots. Others can do it, I'm not arguing over that. ;)

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 15:34

laurafry

I have video clips showing how I dress my loom using a warping valet.  Yes, a thread under tension is a thread under control, but that doesn't necessarily mean uber high tension.  My rule of thumb is that the warp should be beamed with at least as much tension as it will used during weaving.  For my purposes a half gallon jug of water serves for weight for up to a 15" wide (in the reed) warp chain.  

The more twist energy in the yarn, the more important it is to keep tension on the threads.  If you are warping front to back you may wish to explore back to front?

cheers,

Laura

http://www.youtube.com/user/LauraAnnFry1

Fri, 03/15/2013 - 22:08

mrdubyah (not verified)

What you're describing is the AVL Warping wheel.  I use one of these for sectional warping and it does pretty much what you describe. 

http://www.avlusa.com/catalog/warping-accessories/warping-wheel/

It sounds like you're warping front to back through the reed and the heddles.  Perhaps you should wind on to the back beam through a raddle and then thread back to front instead.  Also, if you use sticky warps or fuzzy threads, try sizing them first with starch or apply a pinch of cowboy magic to prevent them from tangling. 

http://www.cowboymagic.com/cowboy-magic-detangler/

 

 

Wed, 10/29/2014 - 18:07

Su Butler

I know this thread is old, but I happen to have an AVL warping drum for sale.  I used it with warps from the warping board and reel, but no longer have a reel and use the Warping Wheel for my other warps.  This thing works like a charm.  If interested, please contact me via P.M.....

Su