Hello -  I am a begging weaver.  I was taught on a 60'' Jack loom.  I took a series of classes in weaving while I was in high school and I loved it.  I have always wanted a loom of my own.  I have put it off because I didn't have the space.  I have some space now.  I have been reserching looms.  I am looking at a table loom or maybe a small floor loom.  My question is this: Which is a better purchase as far as, what they are like to use.  I don't have any experience with table looms. It seems to me the action of weaving gets altered a bit.  But table looms have their good points.  I am torn between buying a table loom with a conversion kit or a Schacht Wolf Pup LT .  In the table loom selection there are two possible models that come with conversion kits.  Le Clerc and Ashford both offer a table loom that is 24'' or 32'' respectively.   Each also come with stand and treadle kits to be added at a later date.  This way the expense is not as much up front  for a table loom as it would be for a floor loom.  respectively the table loom would actually cost more  then a compact floor loom( Schacht Wolf pup LT.)  The compact floor loom is not portable and is not as wide.  So table loom would be portable and wider and the floor loom would be like what I am used to but limiting in that it is not that wide .   I would apprciate any insight  or guidance thank you so much

Comments

Thu, 01/08/2015 - 16:19

sandra.eberhar…

I have two table looms that I got because I wanted a portable loom with greater patterning potential than the 4 shaft floor loom that I had at the time.  I warped one, wove for about two inches and gave up.  I don't like it.  It's slow (so slow), it's easy to make a mistake raising the wrong shaft, and I never got the rhythm I enjoy.  I also found that the table loom, at 25", was not as portable as I expected.  I Wolf Pup comes with wheels, and is actually quite portable.

Thu, 01/08/2015 - 16:29

JeanOCuilinn

I agree with Sofa Dog. Table looms are slow and really good for sampling or going to workshops, perhaps. I just bought a Wolf Pup LT and I like it ver much. It does roll and will fit in the back of a car when it's folded up. If you learned on a 60" floor loom I think you will be frustrated with a table loom. I have heard of others getting them and then quitting because of the trickiest of raising and lowering shafts etc. As far as cost and width goes. If you could get a small loan from your parents or even the bank - build credit- you might consider going ahead and investing in the baby wolf with the stroller (wheels) that would give you some more width. I was considering table looms at first too and was seriously looking at the Louet Jane. It's nice but pricey. Good luck and let us know what you get! I'm sure others with much more experience will chime in too.
Thu, 01/08/2015 - 16:47

luna4

Thank you for your comments.  I am concerned about the rhythm.  When I think about weaving I think about sitting at the loom, throwing the shuttle back and forth.  I want my weaving experienced to be what made me fall in love with weaving in the first place.  I imagined that a table loom would be less smooth in it's process.  Iam leaning towards buying a floor loom.  The shed height on a table loom seems like it would be very small.  

Thu, 01/08/2015 - 17:01

pammersw

Given your background,  I'd suggest you consider a used Baby Wolf, as well as the Wolf Pup. Get the stroller wheels if it should happen to not have them yet. They fold, and with the wheels and an old blanket over the back of the trunk, one person can move them and maneuver them in and out of the car trunk. I rented the guild's extra Baby Wolf when I started and loved it!

Thu, 01/08/2015 - 17:53

sequel (not verified)

A table loom takes up as much space as a floor loom of the same size - actually twice the space, since you have to move a table loom somewhere when you need the table - so you will also need you need a "vacant" space to move it to when not in use.  If you have a vacant space, then you have enough room for a small floor loom.  Of course, finding a place for the warping board, bobbin winder, lease sticks, shuttles, and so on could be the real challenge.

Thu, 01/08/2015 - 22:10

sandra.eberhar…

The biggest single difference that I found was in the body mechanics.  A floor loom uses your legs, back, shoulders and arms. If I work at my big barn loom for a few days a week, my back gives me much less trouble.  A table loom uses only your arms and shoulders.  I agree with the comment about a large table loom taking as much space as a small floor loom.  You mention putting a table loom on a stand (with a treadle attachment, I assume); at that point you may be better with a purpose-built floor loom with lamms.

Thu, 01/08/2015 - 22:16

sandra.eberhar…

On the other hand, I recently watched a video on designing rep, and the teacher used a table loom to show how the pattern changes as each shaft is raised.  It was a relevation.

Fri, 01/09/2015 - 13:44

jander14indoor (not verified)

My experience.  I had a used Leclerc table loom with stand when I first started, price was right <$150.  It had pedals that you could tie up like a floor loom so speed and rythym were OK.  BUT, the beater was so short that the 'sweet' spot for weaving was VERY small.  Wove a couple of projects on it OK, but found it limiting.

I replaced it with a used Baby Wolf.  At little more money, but well worth it to me.   If you are patient, you can find ones well under $1000, may need a few minor repairs, but still reasonable.  

As others have said, about the same floor space required.  Yes it was deeper, but folded smaller FAR faster so much less space when NOT in use.  And the extra depth and longer beater legs made weaving so much easier.  Much larger sweet spot, and much easier treadling.

My experience anyway,

Jeff Anderson

Livonia, MI

Fri, 01/09/2015 - 14:39

sally orgren

If you aren't going to be taking the loom to workshops at least a few times a year, get a floor loom with at least 8 shafts. Baby Wolfs are fairly versatile and a good investment as they are easy to resell/hold their value. (I don't own one, but have borrowed them several times.)

If you need high-portability, a table loom is the way to go, but at 24" or wider, with 8 shafts or more, (weighing more than 30 pounds), you might not be so "portable". If you are considering those sizes, again, maybe think a floor loom of 36" and just rent/borrow a table loom when needed. For portability, I like the Leclerc Voyagers at 15" in the 8-12 shaft range. With that many shafts, you can weave double-width (30" wide) if needed.

Also, although they take longer to weave with, the direct tie-up of a table loom does WONDERS for your learning curve and understanding of weave structures as a beginner. 

Ideally, you'll eventually have one of each!

Sat, 01/10/2015 - 03:12

Airstream28

Luna et al,

Thanks for your question and subsequent answers. I too am struggling as to what my next loom should be. I currently have a 12 shaft 48" LeClerc that I don't ever see me selling. It is a real workhorse. I am in the process of looking for a small, somewhat more portable loom and have posted a similar question on Ravellery. The responses are pretty much as what we have seen here. The only caveat is that the small floor looms may not be as "stable" as I am used to, or what a solid table loom might offer. 

On the other hand, I am a speedy weaver and not being able to get a good rythm going on a table loom would be a definite disadvantage.

My conclusion - I will probably get an 8-shaft Baby Wolf with extenders and wheels (I am nearly 6' and need a tall loom).

 

 

Sat, 01/10/2015 - 16:39

luna4

I am super excited to read all the comments posted.  People have brought up concerns that I didn't think of.  The posts have been very helpful.  I am leaning toward buying a Wolf Pup LT or maybe even a Baby Wolf.  I have been trying to find a Baby Wolf used- no luck so far.  I feel like a floor loom is the right choice for me.

Sat, 01/10/2015 - 17:35

tommye scanlin

luna4,

I also weigh in on floor loom for several reasons.  First, I'll say that I have a small table loom--was the first loom I bought many years ago and I wove A LOT on it before investing space and $$ into a floor loom about four years later.  It was fine for what I needed as I was learning about weaving and I've used it since as a teaching tool.  However, the ease with which you can develop a nice rhythm for the weaving is, in my opinion, disjointed with a table loom if it's the type with levers at side or front.  Other qualities I found not too desirable were the smaller area in which to weave before advancing and the buildup on the cloth beam when weaving longer pieces.

I've used many makes, sizes and number of shafts of floor looms through the years.  Although most of my work is tapestry and the looms I use for that are pretty simple upright frames, I still keep and use a floor loom.  I currently have an 8 shaft Macomber.  But I've happily woven many, many things with 4 shafts and also with floor looms with direct tie-ups.

In my opinion, a direct tie-up floor loom, like the Dorset loom, for instance, gives a lot of flexibility with using different tieups easily.  Of course, most of the time you're stepping on two (or even three) treadles at a time to get the sheds you want... but that's easily done.

When I was still teaching at the university I'd use a direct tie-up loom for demos (a Dorset or a Harrisville) since I could quickly show students the different effects of tieups with threadings. 

Long story to make a short point:  floor loom might be your best choice and don't feel you're going to get "less" if the loom is 4-shaft and direct tie-up.  After all, as my tapestry teacher, Archie Brennan, once said when a bunch of us in a workshop were asking him what was the "best" tapestry loom:  "The quality of the weaving starts with the weaver and moves out."

Tommye