Yet ANOTHER issue, 63 " Glimåkra, drall pulleys, clean shed, reasonable shed - that is until I treadle. With each treadle I cannot get the shafts to re-align. Treadles are set low enough so as not to split shed, elastics in place, moved the drall pulleys in to adjust for narrower width weave, the pattern harnesses and ground align nicely until I advance to next treadle, then in order to get the shed to re-align I have to straighten by hand which is time consuming. I moved the tie up to the center 6 treadles, tried tie up farthest away from pivot point etc.... The only thing different is I had to tie knots to secure the shaft cords as I am out of texsolv arrow pegs and not sure if there is some slipping causing the shafts to tilt a little. 

It has been a long day and I cannot think clearly to figure out what the issue is? Suggestions very welcomed!

Dawn

Comments

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 14:34

Joanne Hall

Hi Dawn,

There are two issues here.  One is the drall pulley tie up and the other is the untied shafts for the damask.  And I assume that you have a narrow warp on your 63 inch wide loom.  So, that is a third issue.  You need to separate these issues and work on them one at a time.  If you want to test your tie up of the drall pulleys, tie up two more treadles to plain weave.  Then you will know if the tie up is working.  There should be no need to move the pulleys closer together for a narrow warp, so that may be one problem.  Then if the narrow warp is the problem, you may need to make the solution which is on page 242 of the Big Book of Weaving.  And/or the elastics may need to be checked.  If they are too elastic or too tight, that could affect your shed. But checking the elastics can be done with the plain weave treadles for now.  When you have solved the narrow warp problem, then you can go on to the issue of the damask treadling.  But check the drall pulleys and the narrow warp first.

Joanne

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 15:19

Dawn McCarthy

Wove some tabby on 2 treadles.  Shed is good and shafts realign a little better - For the damask 6 shaft only one shaft is lowered - the other raises and it seems there is not enough counteraction to return the shaft when the next shaft is lowered.  Could it be the elastics?

 

Dawn

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 15:32

Joanne Hall

Hi Dawn,

Remember that the shafts do not go where you want them to go until you step on a treadle.  So, do not expect them to do anything by just looking at them.  You only evaluate the sheds when you have pressed on a treadle.

Yes, if the shafts which are not tied to a treadle do not stay in place, but instead want to sink, then the elastics are too loose, or are not elastic enough.  We have the buttonhole elastic that is supplied by the drawloom company if you need to purchase some. 

After you get the elastics to work, you can also tie up an extra treadle as I explain on page 26 of my tie-up book.  This gives a little more weight to the lower lamms, which will also help to hold up the untied shafts.  If your lower lamms are less than 62 inches long, your loom was made before l983 and they will need this extra weight. 

Joanne

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 15:46

Dawn McCarthy

I have about 14 inches of damask weaving already done, it is the shafts which are depressed/raised which do not return well to center, I have the shafts tied up to the upper lams and have removed the lower.  My lower lams have the extra long length, should I try using those instead for a bottoms up shed?  I already have tried an extra treadle tied, didnt improve anything.  I think I need to contact you privately and order new buttonhole elastic, I think the one I am using is too soft.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 16:09

Joanne Hall

I don't understand your description of bottoms up, or not using the lower lamms. There are different ways to tie up the lamms.  I use the traditional way for damask, the upper lamm is used for the shaft which is pulled down and the lower lamm is used for the shaft which needs to rise. 

The shafts which are raised should fall back into place, just by gravity.  The shafts which are lowered by the upper lamms are pulled back in place by the elastics. 

Joanne

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 16:58

Dawn McCarthy

Thanks for helping Joanne, I assumed that drall pulleys are to be tied as counterbalance = one set of lams?  the bottom of the shaft is attached to its corresponding lam and the lowering of each shaft corresponds with the raising of its partner on the drall pulley (1 & 6, 2 & 5, 3 & 4).  I am confused as to how I can attach each shaft to an upper and lower lam with drall action.

I did switch to the longer set of lams (one set only) I loosened the tension on the warp a little and it seems much better and now only needs attention every now and again.

Dawn

 

 

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 19:47

Joanne Hall

Hi Dawn,

I am sorry for that.  I have always set up with the countermarch, so I am thinking countermarch with the two sets of lamms.  Actually, it is possible to set up the countermarch damask tie up with just one set of lamms, but I still use two. 

If you are getting the sheds, I am sure you have it tied up correctly.  I think you are right that the elastics are not bringing the shafts to where they need to be for the next shed.

Joanne

Sat, 04/23/2011 - 14:36

kerstinfroberg

I am not a damask weaver, best make this clear from the beginning :-)

But, as I understand it, for damask you tie up for one (and only one) structure - the other/opposite structure "appears" with the pattern shafts/units drawn. So: how can you tie up for a 1/6 (ot if it should be 6/1, I can never remember) using dräll pulleys, where (afaik) the shafts have to work in pairs?

Sat, 04/23/2011 - 14:49

kerstinfroberg

Re-reading Dawn's posts: did I misunderstand, are you perhaps weaving 2 blocks of 1/3 - 3/1 twill? If so, I'm not sure what you mean by "re-align" - when leaving one treadle you will go on to the next, and other shafts will rise/lower according to that treadle's tieup?

And yes, according to my experiences of using dräll pulleys, they are tied to lower the shafts (one set of lamms).

(as I am sure you know, the tie-up MUST be of the "opposite" type - if sh 1 goes down, sh 6 MUST go up, sh 2 down -> sh 5 up and so on. One of my experienced frieands forgot that some time ago, and she had to get someone else to look at her loom - she was *so sure* she had done right, so she could not see the error... Silly mistakes happen to everyone, from time to time)

Sat, 04/23/2011 - 15:30

Dawn McCarthy

Kerstin, weave structure is correct, have woven 16 inches.  However - say treadle one = 2 down and 5 up, when I release the treadle, the shafts do not quite fully return to neutral position.  I am going to replace the elastics and that should resolve the issue.  Using my long lams has helped add weight and the issue has improved.

 

Dawn

Sat, 04/23/2011 - 15:30

Joanne Hall

Hi Kerstin,

She is weaving on a drawloom, so the tie up is one up and one down and they are opposites.  You have been weaving on your computer operated loom and other looms, so maybe you missed the drawloom part of the question. 

Will I see you at VAV in Borås?

Joanne

Sat, 04/23/2011 - 16:06

kerstinfroberg

maybe I should start a new thread, but as this one include dräll pulleys already -  My very small experience of drawloom weaving may be the biggest problem here. Forgive me if it is obvious to you, but pls tell me...

Below left is one possible 6-shaft satin tie-up. Assuming black means warp going down, then (right) orange will show ends going up. All other ends remain in neutral, right? Is that how a drawloom shed is tied?

And then you shuttle the background on top of the neutral/lowered ends? If so, I understand the problem of not going back to neutral.

Hm. I vaguely remember an old friend (a different one!) talking about the need to always have counterweights for the ground shafts... and wasn't there something about tieing a "leveling treadle", too? Sort of "tie all shafts to one treadle"?

- I've only woven on a drawloom once, and can't relly remember, it must be over 20 years ago... so forgive my ignorance!

Joanne, I'll probably be at VÄV'11, but haven't any particular plans yet.

Sat, 04/23/2011 - 17:07

Joanne Hall

That's right Kerstin.  We use Lillemor's damask book here in the US and she has a chapter on the tie-ups.  And, you described two ways to control those untied shafts.  The elastics are a third and more common method used today.

I will be at VAV so see you there.

Joanne

Sat, 04/23/2011 - 17:27

kerstinfroberg

OK, I shall keep my mouth shut (sit on my fingers?) next time damask comes up... ;-)

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 15:01

Dawn McCarthy

Kerstin, your input is always weclome, maybe we can get you to try damask again!  Here is a pic of a second sample.  Shafts are now behaving although the shed is not as consistent as with countermarch.

Mon, 04/25/2011 - 17:46

Joanne Hall

We get all our drawloom information from Sweden and I am sure you know far more than you think you do.  We enjoy your comments and I read everything you send. 

Joanne