Is there any yarn or thread that will substitute for 60/2 spun silk? Looking at yarn charts, the only thing with a similar sett of 48 epi is sewing thread. And apparently gutterman does make a spun silk sewing thread, but I have not searched it out or compared costs.

What I want to do is make the Doramay Keasbey's frost scarves from Twill Thrills but I do not feel ready to invest time or money in silk yet, nor do I need a scarf that is 13 inches wide, so I could eliminate one repeat if using something of similar size as the silk.

But I also wonder if I could just use that draft and substitute another yarn like Tencel and just size it for 24 or 30 epi and eliminate even another repeat to make it about 8 inches wide. Or I wonder if 16/2 Bamboo would come close at a sett of ~45 epi?

Any thoughts on potential problems or suggestions would be appreciated for this beginning weaver.

Comments

Mon, 03/11/2013 - 15:55

Bonnie Inouye (not verified)

In general, you can substitute another yarn as long as the chosen draft and project are appropriate for that yarn. Tencel and bamboo are appropriate for scarves. This draft has a raised design line of 6-thread floats which are also found in most 8-shaft "snowflake" drafts. At 48 epi, the 6-thread floats are not big enough to catch on things. Floats catch the light, so it makes sense to use a shiny yarn. These floats occur in both warp and weft.

I haven't seen 16/2 bamboo. Is the recommended sett for twill 45 epi?  For this draft, you want epi = ppi so the shape is not distorted.

For any weaving project, you can choose the width and length you want. Figure out how many warp ends you need for the desired width and sett, checking the threading repeat in the draft first.

Another approach would be to choose a design and a weave structure, then create your own draft with the float length you want and repeat size you want.

 

Mon, 03/11/2013 - 18:57

laurafry

There is 2/16 bamboo - in Canada you can get it from Maurice Brassard - in the US I think Halycon carries it.

cheers,

Laura

Tue, 03/12/2013 - 02:01

planttapestry (not verified)

Bonnie, Re: "Another approach would be to choose a design and a weave structure, then create your own draft with the float length you want and repeat size you want."

Wow, the float issue is one thing that stumps me over and over when looking at a draft. I am always amazed at weavers just looking at a pattern and immediately knowing the float length. What is the trick to learning where to look to see this? But now that is changing the topic of this post.

What I really want to know is what other kind and size of yarn would work for this pattern that calls for 60/2 spun silk. 

Do you think the Bamboo is shiny enough? The 16/2 is available in Canada and  Eugene Textile will order it since that is where they get their tencel.

But if I need the shininess of Tencel, will 8/2 work with that size of float? Will that be too long for that size of yarn, is that what you mean?

I'm pretty sure of how to get the scarf be the size I want.

Tue, 03/12/2013 - 19:44

Bonnie Inouye (not verified)

I haven't seen 16/2 bamboo so I do not know if it reflects light.

Tencel is generally a good substitute for silk. But you could also look for sales at places carrying 60/2 silk for future use. This weight of silk has a lot of yards per pound so one cone can make many scarves.

8/2 Tencel is thicker than 60/2 silk. I have woven twills with 10/2 Tencel warp. It has the sheen of silk but not the hand. But it's still nice. If you used 30 epi with 8/2 Tencel, I think you will get this to square on a floor loom. Those 6-thread floats will be one-fifth of an inch long. That sounds OK to me, but it will be your decision. You get to choose how long a float you want. A change in the tie-up will change the float length.

The woman who started Textura Trading Company used this draft from Weaver's magazine with 30/2/4 Tencel, which is about the thickness of 10/2, and wove a scarf in green and purple. She used it on their website. I don't know if it is still there but you could search for the company online.

Bonnie

Sat, 03/16/2013 - 20:24

Su Butler

You could use rayon sewing thread as your warp.  It is about a 50/2 size and will substitute nicely for the 60/2 and you get even more sheen that you would with silk.  I think you will find that it will cost more than the equivalent amount of silk though.  It takes about one ounce of 60/2 silk to make a scarf, give or take a little.....would take more of the rayon to make the same.  Weaving with fine silk is actually much more cost effective than weaving with cotton, when you compare the amount used/price.  

 

Tue, 03/19/2013 - 13:11

sally orgren

I have substituted sewing thread (cotton and blends) for weaving thread and I am never happy with the resulting texture, although the color and sheen might be ideal. I think it is because sewing thread might be spun "harder" (or twisted tighter?) for sewing purposes.

Silk City (Patterson, NJ) sells Bambu (#7 = 2,100 ypp, & #12 = 6,300 ypp) FYI, 60/2 silk is 14,800 ypp, so you can start to visualize the difference with these numbers.

You can still get 16/2 soy silk if you look around. I have woven some with this, and it handles like the tencel and bamboo.

If you use a bigger yarn (say the 10/2 @ 4,600 ypp or 8/2 tencel), keep in mind your scarf would have less pattern repeats across your narrower width, and they will be bigger, along with the bigger float length Bonnie mentioned. (A sett for one of these fibers would be roughly half to two thirds of your original 45 epi target) 

Wed, 03/20/2013 - 20:00

sequel (not verified)

I have found that if you are selling your scarves, folks will not pay as much for cotton, tencel/rayon as they will for silk.  Even if the scarves are exactly the same in all other respects.  Silk says luxury.  Even if it ends up cheaper to produce than cotton!

Thu, 03/21/2013 - 06:53

planttapestry (not verified)

You all are talking me into trying the silk. Now where to order???--when I'm ready that is. But my first go round will be with something else and then when I'm good at it I'll go with silk.

Sally, You are exactly on to what I am concerned with: "keep in mind your scarf would have less pattern repeats across yournarrower width, and they will be bigger, along with the bigger float length Bonnie mentioned."

so I do not want to use the 8/2 tencel, but something closer to the 60/2 silk epi of 48.

Another quandry with the 16/2 bamboo--. I've found great variation in the sett suggested.

Yarn Barn lists 16/2 bamboo at only 24-30 epi, 
but Halycyon lists it at 30 - 44 for tabby and 34 - 46 for twill.

Eugene Textile suggested 40 for the frost pattern and 16/2 bamboo yarn -- I was so excited that someone agreed with what I was coming up with!

If it really does come close to the 40 range it seems I could get at least two pattern repeats for the scarf, vs. the 3 for the silk.


Since 16/2 is half the size of 8/2 bamboo it really does seem it should sett at more than 24-30 which is almost the sett for 8/2 bamboo!

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 13:25

creekview crafts (not verified)

Notice several people on this thread have used fine threads.  I just finished my first project with "sewing thread"... turned out quite stiff.  Now I am on to my "pet" project for myself of making pillowcases.  I have several cones of 60/3 cotton set aside for this only to discover the pattern calls for 40/3 thread at 60 EPI.  Interested on thoughts about sleying at a closer sett or weaving it as is.  Thanks for any input.

 

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 13:48

MMs-and-OOs-Ha…

Take a look at Peggy Ostercamp's sett chart, you can see it on the tips section on her website or Google it for a clearer image. The sett for a balanced weave is on the high end.
Sat, 01/18/2014 - 15:13

Sara von Tresckow

There is a common misperception that "fine thread" equals sewing thread which is normally 3-ply and very tightly twisted so it doesn't come apart when sewing with it.

Naturally, a tight twist and 3 plies is going to give you a stiff hand in a woven fabric. There was a multicolored scarf in Handwoven some years back and I've seen it reproduced more than once - stiff as a board every time with a nasty hand. And a scarf should have other weaving qualities.That is why fine singles or fine 2-ply yarns with high numbers are much preferred for giving your fabric a nice hand. It might mean that you need to look at other suppliers than shops where sewing thread is carried, but fine yarns are out there - used industrially.

The 40/2 natural mercerized cotton from Lunatic Fringe would be a good place to start with fine threads meant for weaving.

When calculating sett, you first do a wrap test (can be done on less than an inch), then you consider the structure, then consider the piece and use, and calculate your own sett based on the yarn that you have in front of you.

Sat, 01/18/2014 - 18:23

mneligh

I have had issues with fine bamboo warp breaking on one of my looms.  At the time it had flat steel heddles, not inserted eye.  This occurred exclusively with the black threads in my piece, all Xie bamboo.  I was being very gentle and careful not to put too much tension on the warp.

I have not had similar problems with inserted eye heddles, orange bamboo, or UKI bamboo.  I have not had problems using it as weft.  

The answer is, yes, it is shiny and drapey enough, but the problems I had were enough not to want to repeat the experience in fine bamboo, even though I've since swapped out the heddles in question.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 16:02

sandra.eberhar…

I tried making socks of 100% bamboo yarn, and although the socks were marvelously soft and comfy, they did not wear well (did not wear at all, actually).  I have heard similar complaints of bamboo flooring.  Bamboo does not stand abrasion.

Sun, 01/19/2014 - 18:38

mneligh

I have not had this problem with less fine bamboo (UKI), and not with homespun.  From my experience, it wears about like cotton.  When used as warp, the UKI bamboo seems to suffer from heddle & reed abrasion about as much as dry-linen.

In other words, it's not silk or wool.  On the other hand, for scarves, shawls, polo shirts, and items that are not as abrasion intensive as socks it works well.