Hello. I am very new to doublecloth and just starting to attempt my first self-designed pattern. It will be a doublecloth with a solid grey background and a black & white colour & weave window block (over 8-shafts, the warp is G, B, G, W, G, B, G, W). I am just having a little bit of trouble getting my head around the warping board. I have started making the warp on my warping board but I fear I have made an error. I 've made a diagram of how I have been winding the warp attached here (1 colour at a time, creating 2 ends per warping board circuit) and I am worrired that this will cause too many crossed threads between the beamed warp and the correctly threaded heddles. Should I be winding the warp with all eight ends at once so that at least the threads are moving around in the same group? Many thanks for your help in advance.

Comments

Mon, 08/05/2013 - 12:49

sally orgren

front-to-back, or back-to-front?

How long is the warp?

Mon, 08/05/2013 - 13:20

miri_lilac

Hi. I am warping my loom back to front and the warp is 2.5 yards. Thanks.
Mon, 08/05/2013 - 14:19

sally orgren

Having a short warp helps when you make this kind of miscalculation. I am happy you didn't say 10 yards ;-)

If I were you, I would consider threading front-to-back so you can eliminate the problems with crossed threads at the beginning of your project before beaming. Have you done this before? (If not, we can walk you through it!)

Another question, what is your planned sett and reed? (I am curious how many threads you are planning per dent.) The answer to this will determine how to proceed with the next step of front-to-back, if you decide to go that route.

I am sure the "Weavolution collective" can walk you through this. (It's not like we all haven't done this before!)

Sally

Mon, 08/05/2013 - 15:32

Bonnie Inouye (not verified)

What kind of loom are you using? If you have a floor loom with enough space between the last shaft and the back beam, you should be fine until you reach the end of the warp. A table loom without much depth would be a different matter, but probably you can make it work. This is an extremely short warp. Warping front to back would eliminate the problem on the loom and is worth considering because it is so short. If you decide to warp back to front, insert lease sticks behind the heddles and keep the sticks at the very back of the loom. This holds the crossed threads away from the heddles.

Bonnie Inouye

Mon, 08/05/2013 - 17:54

sally orgren

Bonnie's input leads me to ask, what material are you using—
cotton or wool, or something else? 

Tue, 08/06/2013 - 01:30

miri_lilac

Thanks for the help so far. I am using a small 8-shaft table loom-really a sampling kind of loom. For the material I am using 2 threads of 2/22 merino wool. I have worked out the sett to be 32 for the double weave. I have a 10 dent read which I have calculated to sley 2, 4, 4, 2, 4, 4, 2, 4, 4, 2. I am happy to start the warp again as I am just using yarn from my stash if that will be easiest. Thanks again.
Tue, 08/06/2013 - 09:55

ReedGuy

Ok, let me understand something. Your threading order there is by the shaft, not the thread. Meaning the first thread is on shaft 1, second thread shaft 3? And not crossing threads. And your layers are interwoven, and not separated to unfold off the loom? Is the sequence of warp color actually in groups of 8, or really 6, across the warp? Most likely more than 4 ends is too much to handle at a time in your hands. If your group is 8 ends, then you realize there will be a sequence of 4 grays between groups? Anyway, you could make a simple paddle (or purchase) to handle the 6 or 8 thread group and make sure you maintain that cross. When turning at the pegs, your paddle  rotates around the peg, not twist. If you twist, the ends become opposite in order. The cross will maintain the sequence. You could use a count string at the cross for the group as well. You will want to figure sett and width of the cloth so you will end up with the same 6-8 thread group, so both sides are the same at the selvedges. Some commercial paddles are designed to take the threads through a slot and not have to thread into a hole.

Now if your weaving two layers of cloth that unfolds you have to measure the warp according to which layer that colored end will be, so you would double the ends from 2 to 4 of each color. So grey on top layer, grey on bottom, then grey on top again, grey on bottom etc. Or is the intent to have a single color side by side per layer? In which case, leave the color sequence as is.

I would thread that reed in 3's for 30 epi. 2 less ends isn't going to be noticeable. A whole lot less chance to mess up threading the reed. You know, the mind tends to wonder in repetitive tasks. And if your groupings of color happens to be 6, well then....sigh. ;)

Wed, 08/07/2013 - 13:49

sally orgren

I am proceeding under the assumption you know your color order when threading for two layers. And I had the same thought about possibly considering 30 epi over 32 to make sleying easier — but with doubleweave, I would sample first.

So, I am skipping ahead on how to actually get your warp threaded.

I would definitely go front-to-back. Described below is how I would proceed.

You can keep the first errant bout as-is and wind the rest as it should have been. Or, for efficiency in winding, keep winding the rest to match the first errant bout, so you aren't cutting and tying so frequently when winding. 

1) Slide your lease sticks into the cross of all the bouts as you remove them from the warping board. Affix the lease sticks to the front of the loom, with the cut warp ends pointing toward the castle.

2) Remove the reed. Clamp the raddle onto the front beam, lay the grouped warps into position, and secure the top of the raddle. This will act as your spacer. (No, this is not the traditional way front-to-backers might do it, but I think with your double density and specific color order threading, it will be easier to thread heddles correctly picking from the cross of your lease sticks without the reed in between. Traditionally, a F2Backer would sley, or rough sley, the reed instead of using the raddle.)

3) Next, thread your heddles*, pulling the correct thread from the lease stick to the correct heddle. With this method, warps crossed infront of the loom are okay. We just don't want anything crossed once they leave the heddles and head toward the back warp beam.

* Remember, when you are sitting at the back of your loom to thread, you will need to turn your draft upside down to follow the threading order correctly.

So, if only one bout was errant, that bout can be corrected at this point, and the rest should feed into the castle right from the lease sticks. If you wound the whole warp the same as the first errant bout, it is at this point you are "correcting" the color order as you bring the warp to each heddle. Yes, the warp will look messy at the lease sticks.

4) Once the loom is threaded, I would tie it to a rod, and lash the rod to the back beam securely.
Wed, 08/07/2013 - 13:52

sally orgren

 

  • 5) Next, I would put some kind of weight on the bouts at the front of the loom (water or heavy book weights, or have a buddy hold them tight), so that you can treadle a second set of lease sticks into the warp behind the castle. Lift odd shafts, slip in a stick, slide it toward the back beam. Lift the even shafts, slide in the second stick, and secure the sticks to each other. Now you should have a clean cross back here. And if you don't have a clean cross—that means a threading error that you can readily fix now. 
  • 6) At this point, you can remove the lease sticks in the front and shake out the tangles. Do not comb the warp. Just pull the individual warp bouts forward and give a sharp tug. (Like what you would imagine you'd do when you say "giddy-up")! It's a sharp snap and pull. Hard.
  • 7) When all the warps look in "reasonable" order (they don't have to be perfect) begin beaming. At this point, the process is pretty much like back-to-front, but your raddle is at the front of the loom and your heddles are already threaded, so they help keep your warp more orderly. Some would argue you could remove the raddle, but as a newer weaver, I would leave it there until nearly done, just for peace of mind.
  • Watch where the warps feed into the heddles. If any tangles develop, don't comb. (I said that before, didn't I? ;-) Again, pull on the bout, shake, and tug sharply. The tangles will come out like magic. 
  • And don't try to beam too much warp before checking infront of the loom periodically. Just like an other time you have beamed, if you feel a change in resistance, go to the front and check the path into the heddles to make sure a warp hasn't "handcuffed" itself to a neighbor. Keeping steady tension on each bout at the front of the loom, like with water weights or heavy books, really helps eliminate problems in this kind of situation.
Do you think you can visualize this and it is doable?Let us know how it goes—

 

Wed, 08/07/2013 - 17:06

Sara von Tresckow

Or, just to be radical here, you could simply beam this warp back to front through the lease sticks as it is.

When you have it securely on the back beam and are ready to thread from the cross, there is nothing to prevent you from adjusting the sequence at the cross as you sley the heddles in the correct color sequence - and leaving the lease sticks in - tied to the back beam. As long as any threads you have crossed are straight from the lease stick to the fell line, there will be no problems at all. I move threads in the cross a bit all the time.

Wed, 08/07/2013 - 17:26

laurafry

Like Sara I often times beam a warp of stripes and move the threads to where they need to go.  Most yarns (linen perhaps excepted) don't mind shifting slightly (up to an inch) in a big loom.  Merino has a fair bit of elasticity and probably won't be bothered too much being shifted over a couple of threads.

cheers,

Laura

Wed, 08/07/2013 - 18:05

sally orgren

For an experienced weaver who knows what to expect and warps with good tension, no problem. But we don't know what level of experience or warping habits miri_lilac practices. (And I am not sure if 2 threads of 20/2 merino wool = one warp in the description above.) Double weave can be a dense warp anyway, and it could be compounded by this choice. 

I am also not sure if just one bout was errant, or the whole warp was wound consistently. When weaving, having one section of warp that is twisted a bit at the back of the loom, even behind the lease sticks, might behave slightly differently than the rest, or the wool in that section might be more likely to handcuff to a buddy than the rest that feeds into the castle in a straight shot.

Thankfully, it is a short warp, so any problems should be short-lived.

And with both alternatives given—she should have confidence to proceed!

Wed, 08/07/2013 - 20:37

laurafry

And has learned a great deal along the way.  :)

cheers,

Laura

Wed, 08/07/2013 - 21:06

ReedGuy

We already know that this is a small table loom I beleive. So I'm not sure how well behaved crossing ends at the least sticks (if needed) will become. I'm just wondering, is all. Not making claims. I'm a novice here, but learn pretty quick. ;)

Wed, 08/07/2013 - 21:18

Sara von Tresckow

I have, for years, beamed a few extra threads on most warps as extra or repair ends. If I've forgotten something, I cross one of these threads over to the point in the lease where it it needed, thread it, and keep going. Crossing over less than 5 threads is a non-issue.

As long as you leave the lease sticks in while weaving, any crossing stays behind the lease sticks and only might cause a problem when the tieon stick is exposed. At this point, you break and tie as that is loom waste anyway.

All the claims about "designing at the reed" that are made for front to back warping can be transferred to "designing at the lease sticks" the other way around - plus you have the advantage that the warp (as a sort of insurance policy) is firmly and evenly bound to the warp beam so no tangling can occur.

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 19:02

sally orgren

I was ready to weave a 21" wide, 24 epi cottolin warp when I discovered I flipped the last 4" of the stripe pattern. (It should be white-orange-peach-pink at the selvedge, not pink-peach-orange-white at the selvedge.) The loom is beamed, threaded, tensioned, and ready to weave. Arghhh!

Based on the conversation above, are folks saying that I could resley those last 4" of heddles (in the corrected order), and as long as the threads cross over each other behind the lease sticks, I will be okay to weave off 8 yards, no problem? I just can't imagine this, and would expect the cottolin to handcuff at some point in this long of a warp.

My inclination would be to undo the header, release the tension, slide the affected section off onto a separate set of short lease sticks, turn over that section over so it is feeding thru the smaller lease sticks smoothly and I can rethread correctly, then beam everything to the front, keeping the twist at the back. 

When I get to the end of the warp, I would slide the loops off the back rod (I don't cut my warp), flip the bout over to the correct positon and slide back onto the rear lash beam. Once the warp was rebeamed to the back, I would be ready to tension and weave again.

Which way to proceed?

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 19:39

ReedGuy

Sally, I think they were suggesting around 5 ends max to cross over, not across 4" of ends. I discovered an incorrect number of ends (2 ends short) on my current sample but have caught it in time. With the set I'm using I need 4 ends of 10/2 per dent between heavier warp that is one end per dent in an 8 epi reed. I was going to be short 2 channel threads on the far right of the current block. Then when I go left of centre on the sectional I have to move those 2 ends to the opposite side of the block. Anyway, that wouldn't have happened if I was thinking it through better. Caught it in time though, so no unwinding or crossing. ;D

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 20:06

Sara von Tresckow

If your stripe s equence is single ends, go ahead and cross the threads in one sequence correctly and resley, do the next sequence, then the next - you aren't "flipping" the whole 4".

You move the lease sticks carefully backwards and you won't have any issues until you get to the point where the tieon stick lifts off the warp beam. At that point some of the crossed threads may be a bit tight and you'll break them, add a bit extra thread, retie and continue. Where you add those little pieces of yarn is loom waste.