After reading a lot, weaving a bit and thinking a lot, I have a few very basic questions:

1. I am supposed to wind the warp with several threads at the same time - 2 minimum - for more even tension and reduced winding time. In theory, no problem - I'm all for even tension and efficiency, and I do have two complete hands. In practice, it isn't a problem either when I'm using handspun - I nearly always have several bobbins or balls. But with bought yarn? When I have one spool per colour? Do you always buy several spools per colour anyway, or do you rewind your yarn? (In which case, is there any way of determining how much to rewind? I know, weight/length of the yarn - but is there any practical way of weighing during winding?)

2. I've read serval times that the reed should hit the warp at right angles when beating and that for this reason the fell should be close to the breast beam and one should wind on often. That's for an underslung beater, isn't it? Because my overslung beater hangs at right angles to the warp in the rest position, when it is just before the heddles. But weaving is a lot easier when the fell is closer to the breast beam. Only, the closer to the breast beam the fell is, the steeper the angle at which the reed hits. So???

Those were my first two questions but I'm sure I'll think of a lot more... Thanks for any help!

 

 

 

Comments

Joanne Hall

No one has answered your message.  It is not an easy one to answer.  With more weaving experience, you will be winding longer warps and then perhaps purchasing more than one skein or tube or cone of your yarn.  Sometimes it is advisable to wind an extra ball, which is easy if you are winding balls from a skein of yarn, but not so easy for fine threads on cones or tubes.  And winding from a ball of fine thread can be problematic.  But beaming a warp with a 1/1 lease can cause tangles, so you can consider making a 2/2 lease at the cross even if you are winding with just one thread.

And for the hanging beater, most looms with this type of beater have plenty of space between the breast beam and the shafts.  And the beater usually has very tall sides, so it will beat nicely over many inches of your warp.  So, don't worry about this one.  Your beating will be much easier than if you had a beater attached at the bottom of the loom.  And, you can advance the beater when your fell line gets close to the beater.

Joanne

kerstinfroberg

Yes! I mean, yes, do buy several cones/spools per project. Only - make sure you get them in slightlyt different shades... Having (say) 4 similar, but slightly different, shades of red, you can warp with 4 (one each) and easily weave 4 "different" (but similar)  items. Like this. Or this. (On request, I have added the ideas from the pdf to weavolution - project Playing with twills.)

OK - you may think "I would never want to weave red again" - then go for one red spool. But - would you ever think "I would never weave bleached again"? ... thought not... so: why not start out with 2 bleached, 2 un-bleached (for warping with 4) - and take it from that...

Above all: have FUN!

Sara von Tresckow

You can buy some storage bobbins or the bobbins used for sectional warping and use your bobbin winder to make two bobbins of equal weight from your one cone of warp yarn.

And please don't take every thing you hear so seriously and literally. It takes years of experience to become a proficient weaver. A few projects aren't enough. As you progress, you'll learn about the tolerances built into every step and find some small variations that suit you and your equipment best.

Dena (not verified)

Be cautious about taking what you read and what other weavers say as "The Truth". There are so many ways of doing things and some will work for you and some won't. When you're a newish weaver, it's a balance between getting solid techniques down while at the same time not letting too many details hold you up. The most important thing is that you weave...that the warps keep getting on the loom (and off the loom). Much of the more subtle detail can be picked up as you go. If you only want to purchase one cone of yarn and don't feel like rewinding some of it, then just wind with one thread at a time. There will come a time when you'll want to start making longer warps and buying more yarns and you will know when that time is. It's much more important, at the beginning, that you warp the loom often and get really comfortable with whatever way you're choosing to do it.

Kade1301

Actually, I'm rather surprised by the contradictions I find from one book to the next - "you must use a temple"/"you must not use a temple", "you must build up bulges at the ends of you paper quills"/"you must wind your paper quill smooth from one end to the other" - and so on, and so forth.... And generally it's stated in such absolutes, without saying anything about which action brings the best results in which situation. I find that surprising, because I had thought in weaving, being a traditional old craft that used to be passed on from master to apprentice (or in weaving schools), there should be some uniformity of methods... (like, for example, horseback riding, where within one style there's hardly any variation).

I know it takes a lot of experience to become competent (at anything, really), but as the German book trade used to say: "Books are experience you can buy." I don't have 5 decades left to become a proficient weaver :(, so I need to speed things up. And I figure reading, thinking, asking questions in addition to weaving is quite a good thing - I would really like to avoid developing bad habits.

I did put the warp on the loom yesterday, and I did rewind the cone onto a paper quill, figuring I needed weft bobbins anyway - do I hear any groans? Yes, I noticed that bobbins wound for side delivery will not pull off smoothly in end delivery (which I should have known, as Eileen Hallmann mentions - and shows - it on her Charkha DVD; just proves that I need to experience things for them to really sink in. But I'd still like to avoid making all possible mistakes in person.). So I ended up with the bought spool on the lazy kate and the wound bobbin in a bucket (Fannin was rotating in his grave). But I figured for a 1.5 m warp I'd get away with it.

Kerstin, thanks for the tip with the slightly different colours - I actually did buy two yellows and two blues for each quality, but it simply didn't occur to me to use them together...

Joanne, why/when would a 1/1 lease cause tangles? Most of the books I have specify a 1/1 cross at least at one end (sometimes a group cross at the other)? And I noticed yesterday that I have no idea what happened to the two threads on one side of the cross during winding on (I hope they are lying side by side all the way, but I'm not sure), and that often enough it's really difficult to thread what's really the next thread (as opposed to the other one of the pair) into the heddle. So I decided to work with a 1/1 cross the next time... (btw., I was working with 6 ends/cm).

Again, thanks for your comments!

 

Joanne Hall

Yes, it can be confusing to read advice that seems contradictory.  My comment on the 1/1 lease was for beaming a warp with lease sticks in the lease cross.  If you have one cross in your warp and put the lease sticks in this 1/1 lease cross, it can cause tangles, especially if you have a fuzzy or novelty yarn.  Winding a 2/2 lease in this case, or even a 3/3 or 4/4 lease would be better.

When there are two crosses suggested for winding a warp, this is for warping back to front where you beam through a raddle with the multiple cross, which might be a 4/4 lease cross if you wound with four threads.  This 4/4 lease is put into a raddle.  When winding your warp, you will have lease sticks in the 4/4 lease and the beaming will go on without tangles.  Some instructions may not use the lease sticks, but they help to even out the warp threads, since there often are more than 4 threads in each raddle space. When winding the warp, this 4/4 lease is made in one end of the warp and the 1/1 lease cross is made in the other end.  The 1/1 lease cross is not used for beaming.  It is there only for threading the heddles after the warp is completely beamed.

Joanne

kerstinfroberg

"(like, for example, horseback riding, where within one style there's hardly any variation)" - I think the key words here are "within one style"... When I first joined the 'net lists with predominantly American members, I almost thought "weaving" meant something completely different from what my dictionary said, so many (to me) "odd" procedures were described :-)

Sara von Tresckow

1. Es is kein Meister vom Himmel gefallen - (no expert ever fell out of the sky).

2. Making mastakes and recovering from them is the way we learn. I've started equating "intelligence" with the speed with which a person recovers from that mistake (sometimes so quickly that the rest of the world does not notice).

3. When choosing books and other learning materials, look at the background of the author. They are not all equal. There are books that stem from persons knowledgeable and experienced in worldwide textile production and history - they generally write the most knowledgeable materials.

There are also the advanced beginners and passionate intermediates who put out books long before they really should. Not surprisingly, those are the most "absolute" in their nature and the ones one should be most skeptcical about.

Every one here who has considerable experience had to spend time gaining it. We may not all have 50 years, but there is no way that one can become a really competent weaver being spoonfed.

MaryMartha

And my other favorite ... always/never tie your lease sticks to the back beam. 

Dena (not verified)

One of my favorite weaving quotes is from Johanna Erikson's book on Rag Weaving: "You can't use all of these gimmicks and tricks together. Sometimes they are contradictory. You have to choose the ones that suit you. Try some. Keep those you like best and leave the rest."

Kade1301

Well, my weaving information comes mainly from - in alphabetical order - Peter Collingwood, Allen Fannin, Laura Fry, Laila Lundell, Sara von Tresckow, Patti Zoppetti ("Le tissage sur métiers de 4 à 6 lames"),  -  "advanced beginners and passionate intermediates who put out books long before they really should"????

Probably Kerstin is right and at least part of the problem is that the above-mentioned people are from 4 different countries...

And I like Erikson's quote! As long as she also said which of her tricks and gimmicks gives best results when...

anatcheva (not verified)

You might want to read some of Peggy Osterkamp's books. I find them a great resource (as, of course, are those that you included in your post....Patti Zoppetti is a new name for me....off to Google).

laurafry

I have just finished teaching The Efficient Weaver to a group of (mostly) pretty experienced weavers and the first thing I told them was that they have to find the best method for *them*. While I know that my method is the best method for *me* I also recognize that we are not all built equally. What works for me as a tall person with a long reach and large hands will not work for a short person with a shorter reach and small hands. Likewise, not all looms are engineered equally. We saw that clearly at the John C. Campbell folk school where people were weaving on Scandinavian style looms, and a variety of American built looms. As a newer weaver it is a good idea to survey the experts and then choose the one whose advise resonates with you. One of my students (a newer weaver) found most of my approach to dressing a loom and shuttle handling worked very well for her. Some of the more experienced weavers carried on with their own method of dressing the loom which was working very well for them. Ultimately if something is painful (physically or emotionally) you might want to try something different. In the end, you must choose your expert. In my class it is not 'my way or the highway' it is 'find your own best path for what you are doing'. For anyone interested, I have been invited back to the folk school next January for a Weaving Boot Camp. If you want to develop your weaving skills, this might be a good opporutnity..... cheers, Laura who only has 5 absolutes in terms of weaving 'rules': 1. never use a knot where a bow wlll do 2. a thread under tension is a thread under control 3. if you can't be perfect, be consistent 4. it isn't finished until it's wet finished 5. all else depends.....

anatcheva (not verified)

'if you can't be perfect, be consistent' is a favorite of mine (I can't recall if I read it in your book or your blog) but I have used it often (in both weaving and in other persuits :)).

Kade1301

Laura, that's an attitude I like and respect! And which seems absolutely logical to me. I mean, ultimately, if we get the results we want, what does it matter how we achieved them (as long as we don't damage ourselves or the equipment in the process. And I, personally, would also like to be comfortable doing things, and not spend an unneccesarily long time). Which is why I'm so surprised by some of the statements in the books (especially Fannin's, who seems to be at odds with the rest of the world on nearly everything).

I was thinking of the "thread under tension" when warping and hung a small weight from my miniature warp. And yes, it was easier to put the ends into the raddle (but still messy enough so that I'll try rough-sleying for my next warp). And the "if you can't be perfect, be consistent" (my favorite, too) is my rule for life in general... I would love to come to weaving boot camp, but in winter there's so much work to do on the farm that I can't with a clear conscience ask friends to take over.

Anatcheva, Patti Zapotti has written one of the very few serious weaving books in French - out of print, but the loom owner lent it to me. I have no idea how good Zapotti was as a weaver, I'm reading the book mainly to learn the technical vocabulary so I can speak more fluently to my weaving friends. She's the one who says not to use a temple (never, ever) because: it pulls the fabric to more than it's natural width, it keeps the pick stretched out when it should rest loosely in the shed, thus causing irregular shrinkage, it damages the selvedges and slows down weaving. (That's some of what Zapotti wrote, not my opinion! I just translated (slightly abridged))

laurafry

In Zapotti's experience, those observations were true for her. What I've found is that if the warp is at all tender, a temple will help prevent fraying of the selvedges and help to keep selvedge ends from breaking. If the weaver consistently throws their shuttle leaving the same amount of tension on the weft pick, using a temple does not *cause* irregularities on the weft picks (in my opinion and observations). As for damaging the selvedge, I've learned to not 'force' the teeth into the cloth but allow them to slide into it simply pushing the threads out of the way - which works for thicker yarns. It may not work for threads finer than 2/20 cotton which I have not used extensively. But again - all of that depends on yarn used, proper setting of the length of the temple and how vigorously the weaver inserts the temple at each advancement.... As for slowing the weaving down, that is true in my experience. But there are times when a temple is just necessary in order to get the results I desire and I incorporate the advancing of the temple into my rhythm and go with the flow. :) If I didn't feel it was necessary I wouldn't do it. cheers, Laura

ReedGuy

I've enjoyed the conversation in this thread everyone. :)

So the teacher that said "it is this way or the strap", wasn't totally truthful. She just liked using the strap? :D Of course I'm joking. But I agree with you all, there is more than one way. And if my way, or your way fails, then you have just learned something that will stick in your mind. ;) Reading about it without the details will be lost by next week. :)  That is why in University, memorizing books and material might get the grades if the course is on regurgitation of history, but if I posed a question on an exam that tested your understanding you would likely fail. ;)