Hi all,

I'm thinking of doing an overshot weaving next.   But I'd rather not have to change shuttles every pick, so I'm wondering. . . . .    If I turn the draft, i.e., thread the pattern on shafts 1 - 4, and then add background on shafts 5 and 6, every other thread (like the tabby), I should be able to just use the background color for the weft and not keep changing shuttles every pick.  

But what I'm wondering about is the sett.   Usually on an overshot, the background color is a finer weight yarn than the pattern yarn, and you can square the design by controlling how hard you beat, but if you do the threading the way I'm thinking, won't it be more difficult to square the design?   So if I, for example, used 20/2 for the background and 10/2 for the pattern, what sett do I use?   Do I thread the sett for something in between what I would use for each yarn - split the difference?

Thanks in advance!

Comments

sarahnopp (not verified)

I would think you could probably split the difference while you sample and see how it comes out, making adjustments from what you discover.

I tried something similar a while ago, and it came out very differently than what we think of as overshot. I liked it for the textural qualities, but the surface design just didn't work so well for me. But it did inspire some really fun overshot combined with advancing twill! I gave up pretty quickly on designing to that squareness ideal, in order to play with other shapes. I will be curious to see what you dome up with.

Sara von Tresckow

The squaring is an issue. Also setting up is not that easy as you have pattern and ground warp in the same dents where you have your pattern areas. Yes, you use a stronger thread for the pattern warp and ground warp and weft are as your background on normal overshot.

I did this once in half linen and didn't set the cotton ground warp densely enough - the pattern showed nicely, but there are "gaps" in the ground fabric - I use them as towels in the shop washroom to show customers how not to do it.

SallyE (not verified)

I guess there is a reason overshot is done the way it is!

I'm wondering if it would help to have the ground warp and the pattern warp on different warp beams?   That way you could set the tension on each.

Sara von Tresckow

Tension wasn't the issue - it was just plain confusing to have to put ground AND pattern through the reed at the same time. If there were 24 ground ends to the inch and additional pattern ends in that space, things got crowded and it wasn't easy to keep things straight - and trying to make enough room for the pattern resulted in a sleazy ground.

Bonnie Inouye (not verified)

I put the background warps (tabby wefts, but turned) on the first two shafts because those are easier to see and thread and half the warp ends go on those two shafts.

You could look for articles on turned overshot and see what was used for yarns and sett, the way you might for any new weave. Barbara Walker is the expert on turned overshot.

Instead of beating harder to square with regular overshot, I adjust by changing the relative sizes of the weft threads. The relative sizes of warp threads are important with turned overshot.

Bonnie Inouye

Joanne Hall

If you don't mind learning about this weave by weaving a 3 inch wide sample, there is a project in the Big Book of Weaving which would teach you how to do this.  It is on page 111.  The ground weave (plain weave) warp is 16/2 cotton.  All of the plain weave ends are threaded on shafts 1 and 2.  It is actually not an overshot, but rosepath.  And it does not have plain weave between each pattern warp thread, which probably makes it easier to weave, but it might give you some ideas.  I have not woven this, but a friend did and she was very pleased with it and she learned a lot.

Joanne

sally orgren

I posted a sample of turned overshot here at Weavo awhile ago. If you check the link, you can see where I attached a photo of sampling the sett to get it balanced.

http://www.weavolution.com/project/sally-orgren/bghs-trellis-turned

If you scroll forward from that project post, you can see where I wove two different towel series with the same overshot pattern, but in traditional overshot.

One of the cool things about weaving it traditionally— you can change the pattern color at will. If the pattern is threaded in to weave with one shuttle, the pattern warp color is the same throughout. (I got bored with that on my sample.)

Another consideration, I turned the pattern to sample on a table loom, so it was no problem to do so. But if I were taking it to a floor loom, I may have needed more treadles.

SallyE (not verified)

Thank you all for the information!   This helps a lot with my planning.  And thank you Sally for the link to your project.   It's really lovely!

Unfortunately, the Big Book of Weaving is one of the few I don't have - yet!

Great idea to put the tabby on shafts 1 and 2 - I should have thought of that.   I'm also realizing that the set is going to be determined by the background yarn, ignoring the pattern yarn.   This is going to require some sampling!

 

ReedGuy

Donna Sullivan's 'Weaving Overshot, Redesigning the Tradition' is a good source for turned overshot info as well. You can do overshot with warp and weft the same weight. It's just not the traditional way, and the pattern does not come to life as well as the traditional method. As others suggested, the finer tabby warp is on 1 and 2. The tie-up is rotated CCW and the opposite shafts from the original tie-up are now tied to go up and down (everything working in reverse). The threading is rotated clockwise to be the treadling. The treadling is now flipped like a turned page to the right, then rotated CCW to become the threading. The two warps need to be beamed separate because of tension. You can likely get away with a couple yards or 3, on one beam, but after that, there will be issues. The sett will be double that of the fine tabby ground. So if 30 epi for the ground, then the sett is 60 epi in total and the wpi is 30. It's similar to making double cloth. Yet another method for the pattern yarn is to double the ends with the same weight yarn as the tabby, so then the tension issue becomes a non issue. Kerstin has mentioned pattern weft done this way with regular overshot, it's the method I'm going to use to use up some 10/2 color cotton from the table cloth I'm weaving.