Hello, I am considering the purchase of an 8 harness Bergman floor loom.  I wove a little long ago, but essentially am new to weaving. I want at least 8 harnesses, even if I don't use them at first, because I am interested in pattern and texture.  I am wondering if buying a working vintage loom would have disadvantages over buying a used loom that was more recently manufactured. I'm not so worried about the tie-up as with the ease of weaving, treadling, getting tension right and edges even and other challenges that I don't even know about.  The price of the Bergman is reasonable, but I could spend a little more if need be.  I welcome any thoughts or advice anyone might have for me.

Thank you,

Jo Raymond

Comments

Thu, 10/17/2013 - 20:23

sandra.eberhar…

I don't think buying a newer loom is always an advantage.  I had a Baby Wolf and could not use it.  It hurt too much.  I replaced it with an old TOTT loom of very similar style (26" wide 8 shaft jack loom), and the difference is remarkable.  The TOTT is more stable, stronger, more adjustable, and has a better shed.  But there are advantages to buying a loom that you can get parts and support for.  I have never used a Bergman, but I hear people complain that they don't give a very good shed because they are compact, which is not good for a countermarche.

Thu, 10/17/2013 - 20:48

ReedGuy

Yes, I've come to understand that depth is important for a good shed. That is one reason why I wanted a Swedish floor loom, even though I built it. Once you are used to the tie-up process on your particular loom, over time there is less fiddling around with the treadle cords. But there is always a draft that takes a little more effort to get right, like some patterned twills.

By the way, a harnass consists of the shafts, in your case your looking for an 8 shaft loom.

The best way to see what's right for you is to try ones you are interested in. I find asking folks to pick a loom for me, is about like asking 'which brand of chainsaw should I buy'. There will usually be a bit of bias in the response. ;)

Fri, 10/18/2013 - 01:48

sarahnopp (not verified)

There is a Bergman group here on Weavo, so definitely check it out: http://weavolution.com/group/bergman-looms

Personally, I am really happy that I have my little 4 shaft Bergman. It has taught me a lot about weaving and the machinery and the personalities of looms. I also now have a small 8 shaft jack loom, but I really like the countermarch of my smaller Bergman. They weave differently, have different beats and tensions, and different sounds. The other thing I really love about my Bergman is the connection to the history of the Pacific Northwest. All of this might just be romantic notions, but I get excited whenever I see one available on Craigslist. If you decide to get this Bergman, you will find resources. If you are the Pacific Northwest, I might even be able to connect you to people.

Fri, 10/18/2013 - 18:42

Jo Raymond

Sarah, I live in Bothell, just north of Seattle. I found and enjoyed your blog. It, is inspriational for me.  Jo

Fri, 10/18/2013 - 18:51

Jo Raymond

I have decided against this loom for a variety of reasons, but most significantly, it does not have a back beam and therefore, I am concerned about the shed.  It is at such a distance from me that I would need to be more confident before making the drive, arranging to stay the night, etc.

It is great to have this forum. I am sure it will be a great resource for me once I am weaving.

Thanks, Jo

Fri, 10/18/2013 - 20:03

sally orgren

Jo,

I have noticed regional preferences for looms. Online groups help tremendously, but nothing beats having someone nearby experienced in the loom type you are considering.

Space is a consideration. If you have the space, go for a longer loom frame for a better shed. (Not necessarily wider, longer...)

It's best to buy a vintage or used loom with a warp on it, to make sure it works and all the parts are present.

And don't pay any more for a used loom than what you think you could get for it, especially if you have to turn around and sell it a short time later. Sometimes that happens. As you gain weaving experience you learn what you prefer.

In our Midatlantic region, the wide looms (60") are practically being given away because no one has the space. Smaller looms (36") are priced higher than what you would think because there is more demand. Also, some smaller weavers don't have the "wingspan" for comfortable, full-width shuttle throwing on the really wide floor looms.

The number of treadles is good to consider too, and width of the treadles. More treadles are better if you want to get into patterning on 8 shafts. People with big feet have difficulty if the treadles are too narrow or too close. And some looms have treadles affixed to the front of the loom, some at the back — where you have to "step up" to hit the treadle. 

Visiting weaver's homes and sitting at their looms, even if unwarped, is a great idea. Joining a guild can help with this kind of networking. Offering to help others warp their looms is also a way to acquire this knowledge without having to own a bunch of different looms to figure out what you prefer.

And as ReedGuy says, you'll quickly adapt to whatever loom you'll purchase. No loom is going to be "perfect." There is likely a loom that is going to be a pretty good fit for you, but as you progress as a weaver, that too, may change. (So don't be too reluctant to jump into loom ownership!)

Sat, 10/19/2013 - 01:21

sandra.eberhar…

My favorite loom has no back beam; only the cloth beam.  The only time I have seen any issues with it was when I put a 40 yard warp of 5/2 cotton on, with lots of sticks.  The warp slanted down to the heddle eyes, which you would expect.  It was odd looking, but the sheds were excellent.  However, this is a big, deep loom.  It's 7 feet from the breast beam to the warp beam.  In a shorter loom, this might be more of a problem.

Sat, 10/19/2013 - 10:51

ReedGuy

On the Glimikra floor looms (and my home built one) the back beam (not roller) is elevated a bit above the heddle eye level, so the warp is slanted regardless of the yardage. These are deep looms.

Sat, 10/19/2013 - 12:48

mneligh

The same slant occurs on jack looms, regardless of depth.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 02:03

sarahnopp (not verified)

Hi again Jo, If you haven't joined your local weaving guild, please do so right away. I am in Olympia. We have a treasure in our guilds around here. If you want to see all the ones that are around the Puget Sound, check out the Association of Northwest Weaving Guilds site (http://northwestweavers.org/), which has links to all the local guilds, as well as a great For Sale page which members do use. 

The Seattle Guild is huge, as it pulls in not only weavers living in Seattle, but members from outside. I think there are 8 members from the Olympia Guild who are also members in the Seattle Guild.

OH- the Seattle Guild annual sale is this coming week! That would be a  great day to find someone who is selling a loom.