Hello all - I love Weavolution and the active readers/weavers/advice-givers here, as I've benefited so much from your collective wisdom...so I want to draw on it again!

I’ve been a hobby weaver for the last 5 years or so, making all kinds of things from all kinds of fibers, though I’m not particularly interested in rugs. I have a 30+ year old 36” Leclerc Mira CB loom that I purchased used and really love except for several annoyances: unbalanced weaves (eg, switching between 3-1 and 1-3) are a pain, as this loom has no shed regulator and I’m not willing to spend the ridiculous $365 that Leclerc wants for one; the hooks holding / tensioning the heddle supports inside the shaft frames drive me crazy with the way they split up the heddles AND make the heddles hard to slide, making warping irritating; and sometimes I want more than 4 shafts. Also, I warp F2B and can only thread the heddles by kneeling behind the loom, which is a bit tiring and awkward.

I’d like to complement my CB loom with a small 8S like a Glimakra Julia or an Oxaback Lilla, but have several concerns:

  1. I worry about how time-consuming a CM tie-up might be (I’m used to being able to do a tie- up in a few seconds), and
  2. More seriously, these looms do not appear to have a friction brake, brake release treadle, or other means of advancing the warp WITHOUT GETTING UP. This is a big deal to me! I love being able to step on a brake treadle and advance my warp just a couple inches, and if I have to get up to advance my warp I would find that irritating.

 

So -- advice? thoughts?? I’m also seriously considering a Louet David, which might simply replace my old CB loom... I’d love to hear any comments - persuade or dissuade me please! Weaving is a lovely, creative hobby for me, so if a loom requires too much time in set-up or too much frustration in weaving, I won’t use it.

Thank you all (and happy holidays!) - Julie

Comments

Sun, 12/27/2015 - 16:15

Joanne Hall

If you get a loom with a hanging beater, you simply reach up and advance the beater.  Then you can easily weave 6 inches (or more on a larger loom), with an even beat, before you need to advance the warp.  To do this the loom needs to have a castle, at least 4 feet tall (more is better), as the tall beater gives you a more even beat.

You are welcome to come down to Helena and try the hanging beaters on my looms.  I have hanging beaters on looms small to large.  I can also show you the countermarch tie-up.  Think of that is simply making the tie-up you know and then filling in the empty spaces with another tie. 

Joanne

PS  And the hanging beater is easier on you shoulders if you are weaving something that takes a firm beat.

Sun, 12/27/2015 - 16:21

ArtistInNature

...I've thought about making the trek over to Helena to try out weaving on a Julia (or larger CM) loom. And I realize the hanging beater means more warp woven before getting up - I just hate to get up, as it interrupts my rhythm (and I run the risk of losing track of what I need to do next in treadling, which is easy to do even when I'm sitting down!). -- Will you be at any fiber events in the Missoula area in 2016?

Julie

Sun, 12/27/2015 - 17:03

Sara von Tresckow

The reason that looms like the Lilla do not have handles to advance the warp is that to achieve stability on the rear pawl. it is mounted at an angle that requires loosening the cloth beam a notch or two first - so getting up briefly and adjusting the tension becomes the easiset way. Since with longer warps, a notch on the beam is moving more warp(cloth) when there is buildup, it is also helpful to adjust using both wheels to get things just right. It is a feature and not easily modified other than switching to live weight tension - which is nice, but does make your max weaving width a bit narrower.

Countermarche tieups are really only terrible in the eye of beholders who have never used them or have not spent a bit of time learning how they work. There are several ways to avoid "going under the loom". Also, planning the next several warps can net a weaver a tieup that needs changing only occasionally.

The standard countermarche loom is not built for F2B warping - it was never an accepted method in the lands where they are built. If the weaver is willing to beam the warp under tension and warp the heddles from the lease sticks, it is possible to put a stool in front of the shafts, use the shaftholders to put the height at the right level, and simply pull the warp ends through the heddle eyes. Or the threading can be done standing.

Sleying the reed is made easy because the reed then can hang on two strings in front of the shafts for easy reach.

While the David's sinking shed is a bit better than rising shed - there is still a disparity in the tension of the threads on the shed floor and shed roof that translates into fabrics made on one-way sheds a bit different from the countershed(CB or CM) looms. Firm fabric is best done countershed, as is delicate cloth. The hanging beater is perfect for delicate things.

A loom is meant to produce fabric. A traditional 8 shaft/8 treadle countermarche loom is about the most versatile loom on the market. It will do heavy or light fabrics, firm rugs, and adjust well to the body of the weaver. That's not to say that some "convenience" features might not appear, but in many cases, the loom is so well designed that those features were never needed.

Sun, 12/27/2015 - 17:26

ArtistInNature

...and will freely admit it when it comes to CM tie-ups and B2F warping, neither of which I've ever done. (I learned weaving on my own, with plenty of stumbles, from the "Learning to Weave" book and from Dr. Google). I am engineer by training and do like to research things, which is how I've found notes on the many times weavers new to CM have stumbled on trying to get their tie-ups working and proper sheds.

I'll admit to some trepidation that CM looms can't be warped F2B, since that's ALL I've ever done and am very comfortable with it...plus it allows me to sley the reed sitting at my desk with good posture (rather than kneeling/hunched, like I do to thread heddles on my current loom). I'm willing to learn B2F, but am nervous about not being able to use F2B anymore.

That said -- I'm so grateful for the discussion and information being shared here! I've read and re-read other discussions on Weavolution when researching, so I hope this will also benefit others. Thank you Joanne and Sara for taking the time to share your deep experience! And I do want to hear from others who have relevant loom experience too.

Sun, 12/27/2015 - 17:35

Joanne Hall

Be sure to remember not to believe everything you read.  Countermarch looms are easy to warp front to back and many weavers do that.   In fact, I have not found a loom that I couldn't warp either way.

Joanne

Sun, 12/27/2015 - 18:04

Sara von Tresckow

Yes, you can do anything, but I've started using Anne Field's "Learn to Weave" ( much better than "learnING to Weave") where she uses a baby wolf to demonstrate B2F warping - placing the raddle on the breast beam ahead of the lease sticks giving an effortless warping experience. I'm finding good resonance from weavers about how well it works.

With warping a countermarche loom with castle, you do not usually sley the reed in the beater bar. You simply hand it at the right position using scrap string. It then moves with you so you can focus on the dents and have a very accurate experience.

It still comes down to whether the reed needs 2 or more threads per dent - with multiple threads, the risk of tangles in front of the reed due to crossed threads in the heddles multiplies significantly.

Mon, 12/28/2015 - 04:39

sandra.eberhar…

The debate of whether to use BtF or FtB is an ongoing debate, with pros and cons for both sides.  You may want to do a search of Weavo to see the debate.  If you get into fine threads, you probably want to learn BtF, as it doesn't drag the warp through everything twice.  I like to hang or tape the reed to the front of the loom so it lies horizontal to sley it, and I always warp BtF on my  countermarche, counterbalance and jack looms.