I'm working my way through the Ursina Arn-Grischott "Doubleweave on Four to Eight Shafts" book borrowed from the local guild. I've not tried doubleweave, but would like to...and I'd be most interested in the warp interchange possibilities. HOWEVER. If I'm understanding correctly, it would appear that with a 4-shaft plain-weave doubleweave, 8 treadles (8 different tie-ups) are required to do warp interchange. Is this correct?? (Dr. Google was no help in answering this question...possibly it's rarely searched.)

If it IS correct, then I can't possibly imagine a 4-shaft weaver redoing tie-ups every time he/she wants to interchange warp!! -- suggesting an 8-shaft/10 treadle loom is the minimum required for doubleweave of any interest. (Sob. I only have a 4S counterbalance, which I do dearly love otherwise).

Julie

Comments

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 09:36

kerstinfroberg

Yes, it is correct that you need 8 combinations.

But, if you have two feet, you can do it with a direct tieup:

This is the liftplan derived from the tie-up below

(especially when drafting dw, I use different colours for warp and weft for the "same" layers, as I personally find it so much easier to see what happens - here, whit and yellow is one layer, black and blue the other)

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 14:08

mneligh

You won't be all that limited . . . you can do stripes, make 1 continuous (when unfolded) fabric, make 2 ply fabrics with both open or both closed edges, and pickup.  Because I have a lot of shafts I tend to focus on loom-controlled patterning, whereas pickup allows you infinte pattern possibilites. 

All that is said before introducing the idea of color . . .

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 14:35

ArtistInNature

...kerstinfroberg, it looks like direct tie-up would require me to step on 3 treadles at once for a number of combinations - correct? With my Leclerc, I don't know if this is feasible - experimentation is in order.

mneligh, I agree that there are other things to be done with doubleweave - it's just that warp exchange is what would be exciting enough to overcome my dread at the high density of ends and complexity of threading. (I weave for fun, to relax from my intense work as an artist...so I tend to avoid really time-consuming, complex projects).

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 15:00

kerstinfroberg

is correct.

As I have little experience of front-hinged treadles (Swedish looms are generally back-hinged) I can't advise - but perhaps you could lower one, use the other foot to lower the adjacent one and then sort of "reach over" to get the two to stay down? (and then do the third with "the other foot", of course)

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 15:07

ArtistInNature

I had a feeling you might have been thinking of back-hinged treadles - which would seem to be easier to operate in this fashion. A fair amount of force can be needed to get a front-hinged treadle down, hence my concern.

This raises a separate question: can front-hinged treadles be converted to back-hinged??

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 15:35

Joanne Hall

Leclerc looms have treadles which are close together, so you should be able to press on three, if two are beside each other.

I have changed the treadles on a very large Leclerc loom and it was not hard to attach them in the back.  However, if your Leclerc loom has a folding back beam, there is no cross bar to attach the treadles.  You would have to add one.

Joanne

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 16:02

kerstinfroberg

not that they compare at all - but: my AVL treadle is hard to press down, but easy to keep down. Hence the idea to lower them one at a time, and just keep them down with "the first foot"...

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 16:16

Sara von Tresckow

You might wish to try just a 4 shaft double weave in its simplest form before going on to variations - just to get hands on experience.

Looking at Kerstin's drawdown and the Arn-Grischott book, I see that the diagram on p. 66 might help you. If you tie four treadles 1, 2, 3, 4 and the other two 1, 3 and 2, 4 you will never need to treadle more than two at once with the "direct" tieup. The diagram on p 66 is to show how you can lift each layer separately for stuffing purposes, but it is just as applicable to your warp switching plans - to lift the layer (A or B) in combination with ONE additional treadle to produce the fabric you desire.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 16:30

ArtistInNature

Sara -- that's what I was hoping to figure out - some way of using no more than 2 treadles to accomplish a warp exchange. I know which diagram you're talking about; I'll study that page and try a test warp. (and THANK YOU!!)

It's a failing of mine, but I've never been one to try the simplest form of something before plunging in. I really want to experiment with double weave for the warp and weft exchange possibilities, not for a wider cloth or something else that doesn't feel very exciting. Mostly, my proclivity to experiment and take risks has worked out OK, so of course I'm going to go for it here too. (P.S. I'm an artist, but worked as an engineer for many years, so maybe it's the screwball wiring of my brain to blame.)

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 18:33

kerstinfroberg

consider making 2 picks per colour (and layer). This way you only have half as many shuttle-changes...

Here is a variant with Sara's tieup:

 

If, instead, you throw 2 picks/colour, layer it becomes:

and, finally, if you then rearrange the tieup, this might be easier to treadle:

... I can hear someone say: but it will *show* that the picks are not evenly distributed.

I'm sure it will, depending on yarn, sett, ppi. Myself, I always weave 2 picks/layer when using fine-ish yarn - cotton 16/2, for instance:

If you look closely, you can see that the blue picks are paired (as are the black). (Weft direction upper right to lower left, picture size more-or-less "life-size") Whether the pairing is a visual defect is in the eye of the beholder...

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 20:22

ArtistInNature

kerstinfroberg, THANK YOU! this totally rocks! the Arn-Grischott book recommends 2 picks per layer, rather than 1, for simplicity and expediency in shuttle handling...so having your tie-up that would work with that is *fabulous*.

As a weaver who only dabbles (but loves it), I can't thank you experts enough for your time and advice...wow. With these practical tips, and the book in front of me, I feel like I can tackle this structure.

-- Does anyone have a copy of either the Arn-Grischott book, or the newer Jennifer Moore Doubleweave book, that I could purchase??

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 20:28

ArtistInNature

kerstinfroberg, THANK YOU! this totally rocks! the Arn-Grischott book recommends 2 picks per layer, rather than 1, for simplicity and expediency in shuttle handling...so having your tie-up that would work with that is *fabulous*.

As a weaver who only dabbles (but loves it), I can't thank you experts enough for your time and advice...wow. With these practical tips, and the book in front of me, I feel like I can tackle this structure.

-- Does anyone have a copy of either the Arn-Grischott book, or the newer Jennifer Moore Doubleweave book, that I could purchase??