I just finished a project from Handwoven which uses 8/2 Tencel for warp and 60/2 silk for weft. It's a doubleweave four-shaft plain weave. It's from the March/April 2011 issue, with a feature on art-deco Frank Lloyd Wright inspired scarves.

Problem is I don't think they thought this project through. Tencel and silk don't work in this instance as both are slippery yarns. No matter how much I wet finish by hard pressing or mangling with a rolling pin (thanks Laura Fry!), the threads are still slippery. The weave structure just doesn't hold up. I'm thinking instead of silk maybe a 30/2 or higher wool used as weft might be the solution. That would make it Tencel for warp, wool for weft. But at such a fine weight do you think it would help? It has to be that fine as it's a warp-faced project. Any thoughts on this or another weft yarn idea?

 

Comments

Tue, 03/18/2014 - 19:43

MMs-and-OOs-Ha…

Maybe yout sett is not high enough for the yarns you are using? I have run embroidery rayon on silk at 36 epi and not had a problem. The embroidery rayon will cascade off the pirn if no put on correctly.
Tue, 03/18/2014 - 19:49

sequel (not verified)

If you haven't done so, check with Handwoven.  It may be a misprint.  Sometimes a project will go for years before someone tries to weave it and discovers an error!  Most never think to send Handwoven a heads-up. assuming someone else has already done it. 

60/2 silk should be about the same grist as 30/2 perle cotton, which to me sounds like way too fine for the 8/2 warp.  Try 20/2 silk (more like 10/2 cotton) or some more tencel or bamboo in 8/2.  But that's just a suggestion... I've not done it, nor do I have a copy of the magazine nearby.  (But I'm sure it's around here somewhere, just gotta look under all the stacks!)

Tue, 03/18/2014 - 23:46

Weavin Steven

But it actually comes down to 60 epi as it's a double-weave.

My wife brought me to her local quilt shop where they sell small spools of a wool/acrylic thread. It looks like it's a little lighter than a 30/2 yarn. I've got some sampling going on the loom so I can try it out and will let you know. It's pretty hairy and it shouldn't shrink or felt too much, but hopefully it will felt just enough to make things less slippery.

Tue, 03/18/2014 - 23:47

Weavin Steven

Now that I think about it, it just might be the same embroidery thread you're using! Although mine has 50% wool, so I don't know if it can technically be called rayon.

Wed, 03/19/2014 - 14:01

Su Butler

HI Weavin Steven...I have woven with 8/2 Tencel and 60/2 silk many times and not had the issue you seem to be having.  I want to ask a few questions....did you sett your warp at 60 epi so that each layer of the double weave fabric was sett at 30 epi?  How many ppi did you achieve per layer?  Can you post pics so we can see what is happening in your cloth?  It really should look warp faced on both layers and you should barely be able to see the weft picks at all.  8/2 Tencel usually is sett around 20 epi for plain weave and 24 or so for twill, so 30 epi should create a warp dominant fabric for each layer.  At that density the 60/2 silk weft should pack in well and no slippage take place.  It would help a LOT to see pics. 

 

Thu, 03/20/2014 - 01:07

Weavin Steven

 

Hi Su,

Correct, I have the epi at 30 per layer. It looks just great, warp-faced, exactly as it should, no problem. But after wet finishing, the Tencel just slides all around if slightly snagged or if the scarf is tugged or pulled. The issue, I think, is this is not a twill, it's tabby, so the structure just isn't there. The silk doesn't move, but the Tencel slides left and right if given half a chance by either a very light snag or pull. If one is careful it could be used properly as a scarf but really I don't feel comfortable giving these to people with this kind of thing happening. Here are two pics, one normal and one where I intentionally moved the warp yarns around on the silk.

Thu, 03/20/2014 - 02:32

laurafry

Did you apply a hard press? Compression will help to lock the threads in place.... Cheers Laura
Thu, 03/20/2014 - 02:55

Weavin Steven

Yes, a very hard press, twice in fact. Once with your rolling pin system, once with an iron. It flattened the yarn but did not fuse anything.

Thu, 03/20/2014 - 03:15

Weavin Steven

Just had a thought. I made these on a counterbalance loom. The tie ups are:

Treadle 1: 1,2

Treadle 2: 1,3

Treadle 3: 3,4

Treadle 4: 2,4

Since I assume the instructions were written for a jack loom, I reversed the tie-ups for my counterbalance. 

But I don't think it matters as it's still tabby even if it's woven with the tie-up reversed. Or does it? Did I do something to the structure by swapping the tie-up?

Thu, 03/20/2014 - 04:12

laurafry

No, reversing the tie up won't have affected anything, plain weave is plain weave. Sorry the project didn't turn out the way you wanted. :( Laura
Thu, 03/20/2014 - 05:14

pammersw

I think some fibers are just prone to that. I have some dresses and skirts made of commercially woven rayon, and they have a tendency to do that also. Wiggling it in alternative bias directions evens it out again,  unless the pull was at a seam! Then you're sunk.

Sat, 03/29/2014 - 19:24

Weavin Steven

After some trial and error I've found a good weft yarn to use in place of the silk. My wife the quilter told me about some fairly lightweight embroidery yarn, a blend of wool and cotton. No more sliding of the warp yarn. I posted some pics in the "projects" section of Weavo.

Sun, 03/30/2014 - 18:01

weaver-dyer (not verified)

Nice colors and design. I'm late in replying, but just looked at your photos. Have you checked your ppi? It looks like you should have move ppi--a firmer beat. I have used a 60/2 silk weft with 8/2 and 10/2 Tencel warps and have not had a slippage problem.  

Janet

 

Tue, 04/01/2014 - 21:54

Su Butler

I have to agree with Janet....more ppi would solve the problem as the sett is very appropriate for the intended item.  You can beat very hard and even though the piece will feel stiff off loom, it will soften beautifully in the wet finish.  

Sat, 04/05/2014 - 19:15

Weavin Steven

Hi Janet and Su,

I think you're probably right. When I return from vacation in May I'll try again with a harder beat. I'm always using a light beat as I'm used to working with alpaca and "airy" weaves. Anything with a hard beat seems foreign to me. But this will give me a chance to expand my horizons as I really like this style of scarf.

Fri, 06/06/2014 - 13:27

Weavin Steven

Just adding a post to thank those who suggested my PPI was too low. You were correct. I've had a chance to do another project using the same Tencel and Silk yarns but with a higher PPI. That did the trick. Thanks!