Hi Everyone,

  I make historically accurate reproductions of Civil War era uniforms, which were lined and quilted with black alpaca fabric. Where all these llamas were in 1861 I'm not sure. : )

I took a weaving class the the UC Davis Craft Center, so I know the beginning rudiments. So I thought....Eureka!....I'll weave the fabric myself! Could anyone please help me with what weave might have been used during the Civil War and what yarn I should get. I think they used worsted yarn. Did they full the fabric with steam and heat to set the finished product? How did they do that? I ruined 2 yards of a beautiful wool twill in the washing machine. Oh well, live and learn.

   I appreciate any and all help any anyone would kindly give.  Thank you so much from Susie

 

Comments

Fri, 08/30/2013 - 20:05

sally orgren

Hopefully someone can help you. I would have to see a sample of the fabric to be able to tell you any more. My guess would be some kind of twill or plain weave. Most "utilitarian" cloth today seems to be made of these simple structures. Twill has a bit more ease for knees and elbows.

Have you gone to museums to see this cloth first hand? Do you have detailed photos of original garments? If so, you can post them and that may help others.

IMHO, using alpaca in this way sounds odd because it wasn't a common product in the US at that time (from what I understand.) I am thinking wool would have been more economical as it was readily available with similar insulating properities.

When I read up on the history of alpaca online, it sounds like production in England only got underway when they figured out how to spin it (they had to adapt their machines, and also be convinced there was a viable market to make the switcharoo). There was also a comment it wasn't until they used cotton warps that they were able to make it into a viable fabric. So that might be a clue for you, if the US was buying in bulk from these English manufacturers.

And llamas and alpcas are two different critters, but both members of the camelid family. Since Lincoln was known to wear an alpaca coat, I am thinking you did mean alpaca. 

I hope someone with some historical background or museum experience chimes in! 

Fri, 08/30/2013 - 21:33

mrdubyah (not verified)

Here is what I could find on-line with a bit of searching.  This is an image of an authentic US Civil War frock coat.  The lining is alpaca which has oxidized from black to a greenish hue, apparently typical of the original fabrics.  From this image, it appears that the fabric is tabby weave (plain weave).  These fabrics were reportedly woven with alpaca weft on cotton and/or silk warps.  You can see that the thread is a very fine guage.  It looks to me to be something like 30s or maybe 40s.  It is also quite firm and shiny.  This suggests, as you indicated, that it was spun worsted rather than woolen.  I don't know where you're going to get alpaca thread this fine without spinning it yourself.  The finest guage I've seen retail is laceweight and that was spun woolen, not worsted.  As for finishing, the fabric was probably wet finished in warm water.  Alpaca doesn't shrink or felt as easily or as much as wool, but it still needs to be handled carefully.  Not too hot and little or no agitation. A warm press may also help bring out the shine (as would using Suri rather than Huacaya). 

Good luck!  drwCivil War Frock Coat

Fri, 08/30/2013 - 21:49

gildehaus

Hi Sally,

   Thank you so much for your reply. Alpaca was a common lining fabric for frock coats in the mid 19th C., which seems very kooky, I know. I'm going to a military museum in Sacramento next week to see if I can look at an example. If I can take a high resolution photo, I will post that at high mag.and maybe we can analyze it.  Thank you again for all your suggestions, Sally!

Fri, 08/30/2013 - 22:10

gildehaus

Hi DRW,

  Thank you so much for that information. It is so helpful. I feel so blessed to have found such generous and kind people. Thank you again, Susie

Fri, 08/30/2013 - 22:20

gildehaus

D

  •  
    •  
      • PRIME ALPACA BLACK CONE
      • 100% superfine alpaca undyed yarn
      • All natural color - no dyes added
      • DK weight, 1320 yards per pound
      • Made in Peru
      • Gauge: 5.5 sts per inch, 13 wraps per inch, needle size 5-7

  Hi,

 Do you think that this might work?

Susie


Sat, 08/31/2013 - 06:37

ReedGuy

I wouldn't say that is real fine, I have worsted single ply sheep wool which is finer with more yardage per pound (by 400 yards), twill sett around 16 epi. But singles is not what you want either.

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 00:50

laurafry

You can get lace weight alpaca but that still may not be quite fine enough for what you want.  As for fulling, well you'll have to experiment.  Some yarns full well, others not so much.  If you are using a cotton or silk warp, you may have to full quite vigorously in order to get the yarn to full.  Samples will be in order!

cheers,

Laura

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 01:20

gildehaus

Thank you, Laura, I will definitely experiment and make samples. I'm going to try to look at some historic coats and see what the weave and warp are. I will take pix, I hope, and load them here.

Thanks to all the wonderful people, the weave-o-maniacs. I love you all!

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 07:24

ReedGuy

I think you should contact 'History Detectives' and see if they can help out with the construction of that coat. I do think they require a starting point, like a book, letter or fragment of something related to that period. :)

I can lay bets that the details are someplace. ;)

From what I found on Google, they used kersey or broadcloth twills. Kersey was inferior to broadcloth, which it was to imitate. They were well fulled and napped for dense cloth.

 

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 13:13

kerstinfroberg

Since I remember there used to be both "alpaca" and "lambswool" as trade names for warm lining fabrics (but having nothing to do with either alpaca or lamb fibres), I tried to google some.

Apparently, at least in Sweden, "alpaca" could be several things already in the 1800s: it could obviously be fabric made of alpaca yarn, but also a trade name for "lustrous fabric" (usually woven with cotton or silk warp with any "lustrous" worsted for weft), it was also a trade name for a type of "shoddy" yarn (old fabric cut up and re-spun, sometimes blended with new (sheep)wool).

The lining types I remember (they may still be available, but I remember them from way back) were essentially nonwovens, almost see-through, used as interlining for warmth. IIRC, "alpaca" was heavier than "lambswool". Some of it was synthetic.

- not very helpful, I know - but are you sure that the alpaca was actually made from alpaca (the animal)?

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 14:17

ReedGuy

I'd be more inclined to think sheep. There were some British military garb that prescribed the breed of sheep to be used back in the 18C and in the war of 1812. But, who knows there may well have been well established trade with Peru and the US after the war of independence in the 18C. Alpaca seems to me is a much later period, but that is just a gut feeling. I've looked at a site or two on military attire and they all seem to just say 'wool' and cotton fabrics.

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 14:32

Weavingholiday

What an interesting thread!

I think it is a good idea to really look at what "alpaca" could mean in this context, this period was before there was too much scrutiny or detailed labelling relating to fibre contents. As well, as supplies are often disrupted during a war, fbric could be substituted to get an order out, even after specifications have been set.

That said, ther is a thread here that might be of interest:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-19947.html

As well, I have a recollection that, as a result of supply disruptions in the early 19th century due to war on the continent, British fabric manufacturers experimented with fibres that might substitute for merino wool, leading to some new products.

Hope this helps!

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 17:36

gildehaus

Hi ReedGuy,

  Wow, thank you for your ideas. I'm going to play history detective today at UC Davis library, and next week going to the Military Museum in Old Sacramento to see if I could take a high res photo (no flash, of course) of the lining and post it here for scrutiny.

  I didn't understand about the broadcloth/kersey inferiority thing. I am using kersey for the body of the frockcoat, but didn't know that. I am amazed that the US would give it's soldiers an inferior product for the uniform, which would see perhaps (they didn't know) years of use. Here is a link to a historian discussing some of the problems the men had with the uniforms in the weather.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/26917007/highlight/309733

Thank you so much,

Susie

 

 

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 17:37

Sara von Tresckow

Just as there are industrial directories listing the fabric qualities, their composition, thread count, finishing method, etc. for contemporary fabrics, there would have been similar works in the mid 19th century.

You might want to try libraries and WorldCat to find technical literature on British and US fabric qualities at the time of the Civil War.

Very fine alpaca thread is spun in Peru - you would need to look into what importers could offer you.

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 17:54

gildehaus

Hi Weavingthread,

  Your thread from Ian McWherter is fantastic. I know that he is one of the brilliant re-enactor specialists and is a meticulous historian. Boy, that was a lot of traffic from Peru to the mills of England.

   You are so correct about lack of scrutiny in products. Even in the early 20th C in urban areas, they would dilute milk with water and white chalk. There is a cool book of photos called The Good Old Days Are........NOW!! There is a photo of some kids playing in the ocean at Coney Island, and a few yards away is the bloated corpse of a horse. Yikes! They would lace anything with anything and call it something it wasn't!

Thank you, Susie

 

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 18:15

mrdubyah (not verified)

You can always spin your own alpaca, but unless you're an experienced spinner, you're not going to get a consistent yarn.  Thick and thin thread might look a bit farby.  The thread in the coat you see above certainly appears to be machine spun and, given the combination of new factories and a sudden need for cloth provoked by the war, machine spun would be the best guess.  Thanks to links above, we now know that the Spanish and the British were machine spinning alpaca well before the US Civil War.  It seems reasonable to expect that US Manufacturers were doing so as well.  I read on line about Farr Alpaca in Holyoke MA. Farr wasn't founded until 1873, but there's nothing in their incorporation that implies they were  particularly new or innovative.   Ultra fine lace alpaca is available from several yarn manufacturers today.  It looks to be woolen spun rather than worsted, but it may be the closest you're going to find commercially.  The real question is whether to make it black, as it would have looked when it was new, or oxidized pale green, like a faded original.

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 18:42

gildehaus

Hi,

Do you think this might work?

http://www.lunarosasurialpacas.com/store/vendorItemPage.aspx?id=5768&title=natural-black-100-percent--suri-lace-weight-yarn

Thank you so much, Susie

 

 

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 21:11

Weavingholiday

Page 144-145

Alpaca

A type of llama native to Peru. Its fleece "in its natural state is either black, brown, or white," and is "superior to the sheep in length and softness" (James, Appendix, p. 25; p. 452). "There is also a transparency, a glittering brightness upon the surface giving it the glossiness of silk, which is enhanced on its passing through the dye-vat" (James, p. 453). Combined with silk or cotton for the warp of cloth, alpaca yarn was manufactured into "an endless variety of goods suited both for male and female dress" (James, p. 457). The cloth was fashionable from about 1840. Four swatches of alpaca are in the Journal of Design for 1840 (6:107).

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 21:11

Weavingholiday

Page 144-145

Alpaca

A type of llama native to Peru. Its fleece "in its natural state is either black, brown, or white," and is "superior to the sheep in length and softness" (James, Appendix, p. 25; p. 452). "There is also a transparency, a glittering brightness upon the surface giving it the glossiness of silk, which is enhanced on its passing through the dye-vat" (James, p. 453). Combined with silk or cotton for the warp of cloth, alpaca yarn was manufactured into "an endless variety of goods suited both for male and female dress" (James, p. 457). The cloth was fashionable from about 1840. Four swatches of alpaca are in the Journal of Design for 1840 (6:107).

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 23:17

gildehaus

Hi WeavingHoliday, You are awesome! I found the source online. I copied the whole page and then an enlargement of the black alpaca. Sample #3 would be the lining of the frockcoat, I think! Black dyed cotton warp and natural black alpaca weft. Do you think I could actually do this?????? This looks industrially made, right? Is there someway I could do a reasonable facsimile using lace weight alpaca?

Thank you so much for that resource!!

Susie

 

 

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Sun, 09/01/2013 - 00:05

endorph

fascinating discussion - looking forward to seeing where it goes - I am learning so much!
Sun, 09/01/2013 - 03:26

Weavingholiday

Wow! What a wonderful thread, thanks for starting it gildehaus, and everyone else has brought so much cool stuff to the conversation!

I am sure that Salt used a commercial manufacturing system, but maybe more importantly, he had access to thread that may be hard to find today.

One thing that might work (or might not... not sure) a friend, Carol James, who is also on this board "respins" wool yarn to make her finest fingerwoven pieces. It might be possible to respin alpaca, I have no experience with alpaca, but know that Carol sets the twist of the respun wool yarn in a pressure cooker. It might be worthwhile connecting with her if you can't find yarn that is fine/dense enough?

The process of dyeing the yarn and then also dyeing the piece is interesting, especially given the earlier remark about alpaca having even more of a sheen once dyed. Might mean that a particular dye is part of more than just the colour?

Interesting, too, that the uniform mrdubyah found has had the colour shift, might that be a clue about what they used for dye? (I know that a lot of "natural" balcks were iron plus something with a lot of tannin, and the iron is very hard on fabric, maybe this dye was not achieved using iron/tannin?)

All-in-all, this could be an amazing project that could give you some experiences and background that might well apply beyond just this one fabric, but I think you are looking a lot of sampling, experimenting, and note-taking in the eye. Depends a lot on how you feel about that?

If you do tackle this, you will likely have one heck of a story to tell as you go, hope you will share it with us?

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 04:00

Weavingholiday

http://www.brad.ac.uk/library/special-collections/collections/daybook-of-sir-titus-salt/

"Salt and his assistants adapted machinery to spin an even thread, and used alpaca weft with cotton or silk warps. The resulting cloth had the sheen of silk, but was cheaper and longer-lasting.  Alpaca and mohair cloths became immensely popular, a major part of Bradford’s textile industry."

Perhaps this archive could provide more detail about the process?

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 04:11

Weavingholiday

Maybe?:

http://www.britishalpacafashion.co.uk/boutique/bespoke-fabrics-53.html

Maybe they have some weaving yarns that could work?

http://www.britishalpacafashion.co.uk/boutique/yarn-and-fleece-market-57.html

Good luck!

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 13:47

mrdubyah (not verified)

I was telling a local yarn dealer about this thread and he went directly to his Alpaca rack and pulled down a hank of Suri Elegance ultra fine lace.  It's woolen spun, but looks to be about the right weight and color.  Check it out at: http://thealpacayarnco.com/suriElegance.shtml  It ain't cheap but thats the price of authenticity!

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 19:59

gildehaus

Hi All, Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I'm going to call this silk mill in England tomorrow which does historic projects. (Check out the pictures.)

http://whitchurchsilkmill.org.uk/mill/index.php/historic-projects

Wouldn't that be cool if they could produce the material that was produced in the 1850's and sent to America? What a cool historic circle that would be.

If they can't do it till 2015 or are uber expensive or just say no to a Yank, I'll check out 

http://www.britishalpacafashion.co.uk/boutique/yarn-and-fleece-market-57.html

and http://thealpacayarnco.com/suriElegance.shtml

I will let you know what the Brits say. You know, this is the fastest PHD ever earned in mid-19th C. obscure textiles in the history of the universe. My thanks to all!!

Respectfully,

Susie

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 22:43

Weavingholiday

That mill certainly sounds like they might be the ticket, or if not, might know who is?

Good luck with your "quest," looking forward to hear how things work out!

 

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 17:23

ASomers

Please let me know if you wind up going forward with this project.  I am trying to manufacture a US enlisted frock as well.  I have done a good bit of research and would encourage you to look at the following links:

http://www.gallarock.com/GettysburgFedEnlistedFrock.html - tons of photos of the original Boylan contract coat at Gettysburg

http://www.cjdaley.com/boylancoat.htm - more photos of the same coat and good discussion of each photo.

http://www.cjdaley.com/commercialenlistedcoat.htm - discussion and photos of a commercially produced coat, lined in polished cotton.

http://www.cwquartermaster.com/original_frock_coat.htm - photos and discussion on two other frocks.

From what I gather from Nick Sekela, he had a piece chemically analyzed and found that the alpaca was done on a cotton (not silk) warp.  The oxidized green is obviously originally dyed black with an iron-based mordant.

Other good sources for information include the extremely detailed tailoring workshop at williams clothiers http://williamsclothiers.com and the expert 19th century tailor Jim Ruley (extensive discussion of his US enlisted frock construction at the sewing academy website - http://thesewingacademy.org/index.php?topic=1663.0)

Hope this helps.  It is a daunting project and I am still researching and acquiring materials before I tackle it.  I have procured an acceptable alpaca shawl on a silk warp which I will have to dye black.  It is too light and translucent, and I will wind up either doubling the cloth or placing on a heavier black linen to avoid exposing the white wool of the underlying battiing/quilting.

Good luck!

 

 

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 19:38

mneligh

Almost all the spinners in our guild reenact civil war period functions.  I know of one who specializes in spinning sewing thread for civil war sewing kits.  We have an ample suppy of alpaca. While Ozark handspun is not cheap, there are people here that make their living as production spinners.  If you really can't find black worsted Suri any other way, I can try to get an estimate.  How many pounds of fiber or yards of woven cloth would you need? What would the maximum width of the cloth need to be?

I guess I also need to point out that while 'homespun' fabrics were common enough in the confederacy, they were not in the Union army.

Thu, 10/03/2013 - 00:59

gildehaus

   Thank you for that input, mneligh! I bought some Cascade Baby alpaca laceweight for the weft and 2/60 silk for the warp. I will tabby weave it. My weaving teacher is going to help me. I tried so many fabric places in England. A lot of people just don't respond to emails. I'm going to start on Oct. 15 and I will post pictures! I know that it will look essentially homespun, but I will steam fell it, and maybe it won't look too homespun. I understand what you mean about the major US commercial production of this lining fabric.  Thank you again for your ideas!

 

 

Thu, 10/03/2013 - 01:41

gildehaus

Hi ASomers,

   Thank you so much for those links. I am actually following the modules in James Williams Enlisted Frock Coat workshop. I also have benefitted from James Ruley's expertise. He is very helpful and generous with his experience and knowledge.

Chris Sullivan is the absolute cat's pajamas in his sharing of knowledge. He has excellent sky blue wool for the piping at www.stoneybrookcompany.com     I like #SKR9203 100% WOOL.

www.burnelyandtrowbridge.com has four possibilities for you if you have to back the doubled alpaca shawl material. I looked through the swatches.

#5840 100% black worsted wool 60 in wide $13/yd (maybe too hot)

#5823 100% Irish Linen, Dark Indigo (looks BLACK) 60 in $10/yd 

#5810 100% Italian Linen BLACK 60 in $10/yd

#5842 100% wool Dark Indigo Cassimere (looks BLACK) 60 in $13/yd

Five dollars will get you a full swatch kit of many the yummiest fabrics this side of the 21st Century. They are in Williamsburg. They specialize in 18th C.

I read that cotton or silk warp was used, and piece dyed black. We have to improvise, right?

I hope that some of this is helpful to you. I certainly appreciate your wonderfully helpful links. Thank you again, Susie

 

Fri, 10/18/2013 - 14:44

ASomers

Susie,

I am working on Williams modules as well and have both drafted my pattern and worked through alterations.  I am still gathering fabrics. Looking at Burnley and Trowbridge and Draper for the main broadcloth. 

I found an acceptable black linen at the local JoAnn's store that I will back my alpaca. 

Would be good to have your e-mail if you would like to discuss offline.  I would enjoy having someone to brainstorm with on this daunting project.

Andy Somers ([email protected])

 

Mon, 10/21/2013 - 02:39

gildehaus

Hi,

 I'm using a 30 dent reed and going to double the warp threads to 60. I hope I am right in explaining this. I'm using 2/60 black silk warp threads. I will need 1620 total ends (OMG!) for about a 27" width fabric. Tomorrow, I am going to ACE to find the thinnest, strongest metal wire to fabricate a threading tool that will reach from the dent through the four levels of heddles. Wow, this is really going to happen. Best to all, Susie

Mon, 10/21/2013 - 03:18

sarahnopp (not verified)

If you find you have to use wire as a hook, you can bend it to shape, then hit it with a hammer to work harden it.

Mon, 10/21/2013 - 08:19

ReedGuy

Are you doubling the ends in the heddles as well as the reed? That's going to be interesting threading both heddles and reed at once. A 30 dent reed is mighty thin. You'll need something about as thin as tinfoil. ;D

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 19:47

gildehaus

Hi Reed Guy,

 I invented sley (sp?) hooks yesterday with 28 guage steel  and balsa wood long enough to reach from the back though both the heddle and dent. I made 8 to be more efficient going from back to front of loom. Oops, I almost typed loon. Well, there must be some truth in that. ;)

I'm going to take photos today of this fabulously marvelous invention and post them later. Best Wishes, Susie

 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 19:52

gildehaus

Yes,

I am doubling both the reed and the heddles. My teacher said that the heddles should be one thread after the double threaded dent, but that seemed too complicated for me. So, maybe it will turn out to be more of  a warp basket weave and a weft plain weave. I know that is wrong but I am just thinking aloud. Best! Susie

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 00:11

Sara von Tresckow

When working that fine, it is worth considering beaming your warp with a raddle and packing material, then threading your heddles singly, then sleying your reed with 2 threads per dent.

That is how it would have been in the 19th century.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 05:27

gildehaus

Picture One from the back. Picture two from the front. Picture three, I am 12.5% done with the warp!

28 guage steel and balsa wood.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 05:50

pammersw

Oh how clever to make them loops! I couldn't figure out how to get the right shape hook on the end, so ended up just buying one.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 08:21

ReedGuy

Well, looks like front to back warping now that I look closer. Not traditional, but hope it all works out. :)

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 00:07

gildehaus

I finished weaving the alpaca/silk lining. Warping was definitely a new level of Hell. Does anyone know how I should finish the fabric to set the fibers? Do I steam iron it?

Thanks from Susie

 

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 00:08

gildehaus

I finished weaving the alpaca/silk lining. Warping was definitely a new level of Hell. Does anyone know how I should finish the fabric to set the fibers? Do I steam iron it?

Thanks from Susie

 

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 02:01

Weavingholiday

Wow! Wonderful!

Thinking maybe the more experienced folks will be the ones who can best weigh in on the finishing, just wanted to ooooh and aaaaaah.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 21:39

gildehaus

Thank you, there are a lot of mistakes, but maybe those won't be too noticable since the fabric will be quilted to the batting interlining. I just steam ironed it several times. I'm going to cut the pattern later. I will post photos of the finished product.

Thanks Again!

 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 21:36

gildehaus

I am going to CUT the fabric. I hope my hands don't shake...  : )

Tue, 07/28/2015 - 02:53

gildehaus

Hi all,

  The frock coat is done. Here are some photos of the coat and the interior alpaca/silk lining. I glad that I took the time to WEAVE the lining for historical accuracy. Best to all!

Tue, 07/28/2015 - 12:15

jlread (not verified)

All I can say is WOW!!!!!!

Tue, 07/28/2015 - 15:06

endorph

thanks for sharing the final product with us