Vavstuga tie-up for older Liisa

Hello I need to change my loom over to texsolv and have been searching across the internet and came across the Vavstuga tie-up system. Does anyone have any opinions on it? Does it make things easier or should I go through Webs and get the Toika tie-up kit? Thanks

Comments

Posted on Thu, 08/07/2014 - 22:09

When designing a new tieup for your loom, the Vavstuga system has good reviews. There is also another way to tie the connections that is convenient. If you loop your cords (all LONG) through the holes in the treadles and run them upward through one or both lams to the connection point, adjustments may be made by simply leaning over the cloth beam (with breast and knee beam removed) and adjusting the pegs from upper to lower or lower to upper lam. By using all long cords, the attachment at the treadle is permanent so you never need to change the cords - just move the connection to the correct lam.

Posted on Sun, 08/10/2014 - 02:42

Is it ok to pull the cord through both lower and upper lams' holes at the same time if attaching to upper lams? 

Posted on Sun, 08/10/2014 - 03:54

This discussion has taken place many times - I have had cords going through both sets of lams for over 20 years without any excess wear or friction.

It is quite a convenient way to set up a CM loom so that tieup changes do not ever involve pulling a cord completely off the loom and reattaching it.

Posted on Sun, 08/10/2014 - 05:43

I second Sara on threading all long cords through the treadles and then attaching them to the correct lams when changing tie ups. This is significantly simpler, faster, more effective, and easier on the body than the Vavstuga method. A lot of the CM information out there is for the Glimakra (including Vavstuga). Many times things are comparable for the Toika, but it is slightly different and sometimes requires its own approach. I have found that the methods/techniques presented by Toika are in the end (and logically) the most effective for those looms. 

Posted on Sun, 08/10/2014 - 12:42

Sara, Thank you I think this way sounds best too....Could you post some pictures if you have any of your looms tied up in this way? I'm a very visual person. Thanks
Danielle

Posted on Sun, 08/10/2014 - 12:45

Sara, I would like to make sure I understand you correctly. So, you would go behind the lam going down to the treadles, thru the treadle hole and insert a pin at the end of the loop underneath the treadle and then back up to the lam with the texsolv pin on the top side of the lam? 

Posted on Sun, 08/10/2014 - 13:17

It's a simpler method, and I understand that you are probably keeping your harnass in place once initially tie-up to the jacks. However, I take my full harnass to the rear of the loom for threading near the warp beam sitting on a comfortable loom bench. That means the treadles would have to be blocked up slightly to retie the upper lamms to the shafts to take the tension off the cords while retying. Then remove the blocking after tie-up for the cords to become taught. Not all that inconvenient, just a modification to tie-up procedure.

Still hard to immagine cords being rubbed by raw wood (hole) isn't wearing at those cords. Just cords simply passing over smoothed wooden pullies wears at the cords somewhat as seen below.

The pulley is free here as all the others, but this one cord has wear.

Just so your aware and that it's just not an imagined hazzard.

Posted on Sun, 08/10/2014 - 15:22

complete tieupTieup for one treadle

These photos are from the instructional CD that comes with our Lilla looms. The demo has been set up this way since 2006 and shows no wear on the tieup cords.

I have observed that the type of wear Reed Guy shows is more common on pulleys than on connections with holes.

Holes in wood can also be easily sanded or filed to make them smooth.

A recent student came up with the final addition to this method - she suggests looping the cords through the treadle holes before assembling the loom when the treadles are sitting on a table at convenient height.

There is NO peg under the treadle, the cord is put through the hole and looped on itself before proceeding through the lams.

Posted on Sun, 08/10/2014 - 15:55

I suspect the difference is loads and direction. 

When you run the cords through holes (assuming relatively smooth) there is no appreciable side loading forcing the cord into the sides of the holes.  Also the cords run straight, which is the most favorable condition for any rope in terms of load carrying.

On the pulley, there is significant load forcing the cord into intimate contact with the surface.  Any roughness would start picking at the cord structure.  In addition, the cord has to bend under load.  Such usage generally requires derating in other usages of rope and may explain added wear by itself. 

Think of it like this, every time the cord runs around the pully the fibers are flexing and working against themselves causing at list some internal wear.  With a simple straight pull, little of that internal flexing is going on.

Now, if the cord has to turn a corner as it slides through that hole, all bets off!

 

Jeff Anderson

Livonia, MI

Posted on Sun, 08/10/2014 - 16:29

Lamms and treadles sway somewhat and wood will rub on cords. It's not an ideal situation. But hey, whatever one is comfortable with.

Posted on Sun, 08/10/2014 - 16:33

When we're talking 10-20 or more years that the cords are in place and in good condition, the "wear" angle is merely a point of discussion.

Pegging the lams this way saves a lot of bodily wear and tear, making the tieup change a process of leaning over the cloth beam with the breast and knee beams removed - a lot less bending than getting on the floor and manipulating pegs attached to the underside of the treadle. And by looping the connections at the treadle hole, there is no possibility that the peg under the treadle will work its way out.

Posted on Sat, 08/01/2015 - 15:00

I'm in the process of taking my 39 inch Glimakra Ideal from 4H/6T to 8S/10T and just discovered this thread.  It looks like it's a much larger investment in Texsolve (perhaps three or four times for each connection?) but I love the idea of the investment in comfort.  Am I correct in thinking that with this method you only have to set up the loom for half as many connections since the same cord can connect either an upper or a lower lamm?  Also... is there any reason NOT to peg the treadle end underneath?  I think I would like the appearance more.  And how do you handle unused treadles?

Posted on Sat, 08/01/2015 - 16:49

Having taken a good look at my loom I'm thinking that this wouldn't require that much Texsolve.  It appears to me that the cords now used to connect upper lamms to treadles would suffice, correct?  And if each of those cords were threaded through the corresponding lower lamm hole, the shorter cord connecting the lower lamm to the treadle could be eliminated... correct?  It would be nice to have 50% less cords dangling.

Must the treadle tie up be done with a warp on the loom?  I can see that for better access I could remove the cloth and knee beams very carefully, allowing the tied-on warp to then dangle from the reed.  Am I on the right track?

Posted on Sun, 08/02/2015 - 00:26

You can do the tieup with the locking pins in and no warp on the loom - you have more room - and can then fine tune when you begin weaving. Once the cloth is rolling on the beam, it is difficult to change the tieup.

Posted on Sun, 08/02/2015 - 01:17

Thanks Sara, good to hear that.  In my message above, I meant remove the breast beam, not cloth beam!

Since my earlier comments I've revised everything to try this alternative tie-up.  Even with a warp on (but no weaving yet) I think it will be much easier with this method than crawling under the treadles!

Posted on Sat, 10/15/2016 - 19:25

"There is NO peg under the treadle, the cord is put through the hole and looped on itself before proceeding through the lams."

I am threading my new loom the way you explained above, love the idea but I got stuck at this part. Can you explain how the cord is looped, and where exactly? Would be great to do it without the pegs underneath since they are not needed anyway and aren't exactly cheap. 

Posted on Tue, 11/01/2016 - 19:12

I agree, It would be interesting to see the actual run of the cord from the treadle. I'm just dangling my toes in this stream right now. I'll need it in the near future.

Posted on Wed, 11/02/2016 - 06:56

a picture from the texsolv site (cropped by me):

(it shows how to do this on a lamm; to do it on a treadle, do it upside-down, so that the tail comes up from the hole in the treadle)

Posted on Fri, 11/11/2016 - 19:34

This is very interesting to me: I have recently resurrected my big Varpa loom, and am about to start the rather horrid job of tie-up. I noticed in Tom Knisley's video "Know and love your loom" that he puts the cords through both holes in the lamms. If I understand Sara correctly, there is no problem doing this, and it certainly makes sense to me.