Wolf Pup vs Baby Wolf

I am looking to buy my first loom. I do not know if I should start with a Wolf Pup and move up as my skills improve, or jump right in with an 8-shaft Baby Wolf. How limiting is the 18" width? I am thinking it is plenty for scarves, dish towels, runners, place mats. Any thoughts/recommendations?

Comments

Posted on Mon, 05/19/2014 - 05:12

Are you going to want to replace a loom that quickly? I wove those sorts of things on a rental Baby Wolf (from my guild) for about 6 months. If it was me, I'd just get the BW.

Posted on Mon, 05/19/2014 - 15:14

The only reason not to go for the BW is the need to have a bigger vehicle to transport it, assuming you're going to haul it around to sheep-to-shawls or workshops.  Cost could be a factor, but I'd wait and save up, if needed.  The BW's extra width, extra shafts, and for some versions of the pup, more flexible tie-up are more than worth the difference in price, space, and weight.  You can actually do yardage for garments on a BW, for example.

When I take my BW for outings I bring it and 1-2 wheels with me in a Subaru Outback.  Overall, I'm averaging 30 mpg, which is great for hauling all that stuff.  It's easy to load, as well.

Posted on Mon, 05/19/2014 - 16:54

If you go big...you can always weave small...

If you go small...you're stuck...!

Scientific fact of weaving....

Posted on Mon, 05/19/2014 - 17:20

As others said, if you don't have to transport, or at least not often or by yourself, I would go for the babywolf.  The footprint isn't much different and the way the jacks work is quite a bit smoother and more efficient on the babywolf.  You can always go for the 4 now/4 later and upgrade the extra four when you are ready.

Posted on Mon, 05/19/2014 - 17:21

If you do go for the wolf pup, get the LT (4 shaft, 6 treadle).  The price difference is well worth it.

Posted on Wed, 05/21/2014 - 00:56

Thank you all for your input. I am still saving - but am leaning to the 4Now4Later if I can't get all the way to 8 right now.

Posted on Wed, 05/21/2014 - 03:41

Initially I don't plan on transporting my loom much - so I will hold off on the stroller. Any recommendations for other attachments? I have seen several posts indicating the bench isn't a necessity - other stools/benches or a chair will work. What about the Wolf Trap? Seems like a handy idea. Or is the High Castle Tray better? I have an Ott floor lamp so I don't anticipate needing to clamp on a lamp. What about the Treadle Tracker? Any recommendations for a reed size to start with? Speaking of reed sizes - I saw a pattern that called for a 6-dent. If I had a 12-dent, could I use every other one as a substitute for the 6?

Posted on Wed, 05/21/2014 - 03:41

Initially I don't plan on transporting my loom much - so I will hold off on the stroller. Any recommendations for other attachments? I have seen several posts indicating the bench isn't a necessity - other stools/benches or a chair will work. What about the Wolf Trap? Seems like a handy idea. Or is the High Castle Tray better? I have an Ott floor lamp so I don't anticipate needing to clamp on a lamp. What about the Treadle Tracker? Any recommendations for a reed size to start with? Speaking of reed sizes - I saw a pattern that called for a 6-dent. If I had a 12-dent, could I use every other one as a substitute for the 6?

Posted on Wed, 05/21/2014 - 11:39

Any chair will work..the castle tray might be handy...12 d reed

Posted on Wed, 05/21/2014 - 14:03

This was posted on the used equipment weaving group....warped weavers marketplace

FS - Baby Wolf Loom - 4 now 4 Later with Everything You Need.

Posted on Wed, 05/21/2014 - 14:02

I'd go for the wolf trap over the castle tray, but if you have a bench or second chair beside where you sit, you could go for the extra reeds if you have to choose one extra only.

What you plan to do determines what you might want.  I use multiple shuttles at once, so the trap is a more convenient place for me to place them than a castle tray.  Since what I do with my BW are mostly things I do with an audience (usually little kids), they are not that complex, so I usually don't have to use a threading diagram where I check off each thread, as I do on my big loom.  If you need to closely follow a threading diagram, you might find the castle tray more convenient.  There is a diagram holder that you can get for it.  The high castle adds more weight than the trap, which can be taken off for moving.

Don't forget shuttles!  I use boat shuttles on all looms, but they really are a bit much for a BW.  You could use stick shuttles just fine.  They each take their own kind of coordination, and each have their own followings.

You also need some way to wind the warp.  You can start out with fence posts or stakes, but that will be old by winter.  If you have the wherewithall and are lazy, I'd skip the warping board and go directly to a warping reel.  

You will need a sleying hook for threading.  My preference on the BW is for a long one, but each to their own.

You need slats or heavy butcher paper to go between layers of warp.

Finally, you will need books and/or magazines and/or software.  I only use the software when the draft is already online in .wif format.  Otherwise, I love my books, colored pencils and graph paper.  

Posted on Wed, 05/21/2014 - 14:07

I have used many a BW and always used a regular boat shuttle...actually that loom is preferred for the Pa Farm Show sheep to shawl contest AND you need to use a boat shuttle.....

Posted on Wed, 05/21/2014 - 14:46

Yet one more divergent opinion...I don't like the trap because it forces me to sit further away from the loom than I would like.  Having a baby wolf that I initially got without the high castle, and one that has it, I would opt for the high castle.  Skip the stroller for now.  It's easy to add on later.  You'll know when you need it.

Posted on Wed, 05/21/2014 - 14:46

Yet one more divergent opinion...I don't like the trap because it forces me to sit further away from the loom than I would like.  Having a baby wolf that I initially got without the high castle, and one that has it, I would opt for the high castle.  Skip the stroller for now.  It's easy to add on later.  You'll know when you need it.

Posted on Wed, 05/21/2014 - 22:04

I used Bluster Bay mini end feed shuttles on mine.  I did prefer the wolf trap, because the fell is so close to the breast beam that I can afford to lose that space.  I needed to move my BW in order to warp it, so I was really happy I got the stroller.  I kept mine near a bank of windows, and used the window jamb to stick a treadle sequence to.  Why are you limiting yourself to Schacht products?  I sold my BW because it did not fit me and was uncomfortable to use.

Posted on Thu, 05/22/2014 - 00:58

I have also considered Gilmore Gem II (about 4 hrs away), Leclerc Compact, Harrisville, Macomber (none of which have nearby dealers). The posts and comments I have seen have predominantly been favoring Schacht. Is it because it dominates the market? Or because it is a superior product? Or both?

Posted on Thu, 05/22/2014 - 00:58

I have also considered Gilmore Gem II (about 4 hrs away), Leclerc Compact, Harrisville, Macomber (none of which have nearby dealers). The posts and comments I have seen have predominantly been favoring Schacht. Is it because it dominates the market? Or because it is a superior product? Or both?

Posted on Thu, 05/22/2014 - 01:33

I think Schacht is popular for several reasons.  For dealers, Schacht will front you merchandise and you don't pay until you sell.  Leclerc won't; you pay up front.  The looms are easy to use (if not very adjustable) and have nice accessories, although differently designed looms may not need these accessories. They are billed as being portable, which depends on your attitude and car size.  I'm not sure that MacComber has dealers, but it's looms are highly thought of.  Schacht, like many other widely available looms, is available mail order, and many sellers ship free, so I'm not sure why you want a local dealer or a close-by company.  I replaced the BW with a 27" wide Tools of Trade, which I like a lot better.  If I had to buy new to replace it, I would get a MacComber.  

Posted on Thu, 05/22/2014 - 01:46

My bigger boat shuttles are 15" long.  It's pretty silly to use them on the BW, I think, but I do.  I'm so used to a thrown shuttle that using a stick shuttle is awkward for me.

Posted on Thu, 05/22/2014 - 02:42

Theoretically, I am a dealer for Schacht, Macomber, Leclerc and Harrisville looms and accessories.  Out of all of those, it's the Schacht and the Macombers that weavers want (and that I love).  Personally, I like working on Macombers better (B type, not CP) but it's very rare that someone will buy one new since there are so many used ones available.

Schacht listens to their customers and continues to make changes to their products to make them more user friendly.   They are a fabulous company to deal with and any problem that I have had has been quickly taken care of.  The baby wolf is a great "compromise" loom.  It has much of the stability that a larger loom has but also has a fairly small footprint and is transportable.  They are also one of the safer bets when purchasing a new loom since they are in such high demand and their resale value is quite high.  One of the things that I look for in a loom is how much I can tension my warp and still get a great shed.  Many smaller looms lose their shed under high tension.  The Schachts don't.

I have owned many more looms than I care to count.  When I found the first baby wolf (used), it was at a great price and I didn't want to like it as much as I did, but I quickly fell in love with it, became a dealer, and it's still the only kind of loom that I have ever bought new.  I wish I could use it for production, but I prefer to sit higher, to have rear hinged treadles and I want to be able to put more cloth on my cloth beam than the Schachts can hold.

I haven't heard of Schacht fronting it's dealers merchandise.

Posted on Sun, 04/28/2019 - 13:51

Hello, I am having a problem with my new baby wolf. I am weaving cottolin, and it is a 7 yard warp (i know, i know) Things were going fine for the first yard, but now when I raise my sheds, the warp is becomming loose. I think what is happening is that the brake is not strong enough against my high tension. When the sheds are raised, the warp is pulling itself off the back beam and becomming loose. Is there any fix to this problem? Thank you

Posted on Thu, 05/22/2014 - 22:00

That is what the dealer that I bought my BW from told me.  They don't stock much Leclerc becuase they have to buy it up front.

Posted on Fri, 05/23/2014 - 00:26

I also adore my B type Macomber, but I can't haul it around with me like I can my Baby Wolf.  They are a great combination to have.

I have had my BW lose its tension when I tension it a lot.  That has never happened on the Macomber.  On the Macomber, though, it is quite possible to overtension the warp and have it all break.  Good judgement is required.  Ask me how I know.

Also, my husband is used to the Macomber, and the one time he tried to use the BW very soon all the nuts fell off and the screws fell out and it started to collapse from his heavy beating.  It was easy to put back together.  It just was not designed for that kind of punishment.

Posted on Sun, 04/28/2019 - 13:51

Hello, I am having a problem with my new baby wolf. I am weaving cottolin, and it is a 7 yard warp (i know, i know) Things were going fine for the first yard, but now when I raise my sheds, the warp is becomming loose. I think what is happening is that the brake is not strong enough against my high tension. When the sheds are raised, the warp is pulling itself off the back beam and becomming loose. Is there any fix to this problem? Thank you

Posted on Mon, 04/29/2019 - 00:19

If the brake was sufficient for tbe first yard, did it change?  What did you use for warp packing? Sticks, paper, cardboard?  Did you beam the warp under high tension?  It sounds like a warp problem, not a loom problem.  You do have the warp over the back beam (sounds dumb, but almost everyone has not done this).  

Posted on Mon, 04/29/2019 - 23:49

Thanks for responding! The brake did seem to work fine for the first yard. I used sticks, and unforunately it was not wound under as high tension as i am using while weaving. You think it must be a warp problem even though the brake is loosening?

Posted on Fri, 05/03/2019 - 18:49

Are you sure the brake is loosening?  Is the loom fully opened, and the knobs securing it tight?  If you are sure  that the brake is slipping, contacting Schact might be the best option.  If the warp isn't beamed under tension, the threads can cut or sink into the layers under it, causing changes in tension.   What is the "I know, I know" about the warp mean?

Posted on Wed, 05/08/2019 - 00:35

yes the brake is loosening! The reason I said "i know, i know" is becuase i have read that schacht wolfs are not good for weaving linen. They can't keep enough tension. My warp is also very long which I have read can also lead to uneven tension. I figure these two factors are part of the reason my weaving is being difficult. So, yes, the warp was not beamed under high tension. I think what is happening is that because of all the factors above, I am tightening the warp an extra amount to give tension to the uneven warp ends. so, some ends are super tight and some are regular tight. when i raise the sheds, I think that it is putting stress on the super tightened warp ends and that action is pulling the warp ends from the back beam, hense loosening the break. Does that make any sense?

Posted on Wed, 05/08/2019 - 15:18

Another thought, make sure the cloth is not being stretched by the knots on the cloth beam at front, tightening some warps and making an irregular fell line. A quick fix is to pack your cloth beam like you do at the back, to "cover" the knots with sticks or cardboard, to create a smooth circumference. This usually happens about a yard in on a floor loom, when the cloth reaches the cloth beam. If this is not the problem, keep reading...

The warp needs to be beamed under tight tension AND with good packing to keep the warp layers from sinking into each other. Use many sticks or very firm paper (like butcher paper, light cardboard, or brown craft paper, similar in weight to grocery-store bags) that extend well beyond the warp's width when beaming.

I don't see why someone cannot weave linen on a Baby Wolf. I have woven linen on all kinds of shaft looms, including table looms. 100% linen has no elasticity, but you said you are weaving with cottolin, and depending on the source, the yarn is probably predominately made of cotton, so I see no issues there. (Typically it is 60/40, cotton/linen.)

If the differential tension problems continue, I would cut off what has been woven so far and rebeam, using continuous tension when you rebeam. That means hanging equal weights off the bouts at the front of the loom (16-20 oz water bottles), so you know for a fact all the bouts are weighted consistently when beamed. 

When folks don't beam with adequate tension and they start to weave, a tell-tale sign is excessive cranking at the front, and seeing/hearing the warp tighten up in the back each time the cloth is advanced for a few rotations. Also, if not careful with the "Crank n Yank" method, a weaver can get irregularities embedded into the warp that won't show up for a while. Evidence is typically a random group of warps go slack after weaving for a yard or more.

In most cases, issues like differential tension in a warp are not the fault of the loom but result from the warping process or weaving a particular structure that is not engaging the warps at an equal take-up rate. (This is assuming the loom is unfolded correctly and all the beams have been secured properly, as mentioned before.)

If, after 1) rebeaming under consistent tension, 2) packing the warp generously, and 3) ensuring your structure choice isn't causing certain sections of your warp not to be interlaced with the weft regularly, then I would contact the manufacturer. 

A slipping break means all the warp threads are not being held under tension, not just some of them throughout the warp.

Also, if it really is a loom problem-say the loom has been damaged in some way-talking photos to show your beaming process and proper packing of the warp will help the manufacturer identify what the issue could be and perhaps get to a solution quicker, as you have eliminated the most common causes.

Good luck.

Posted on Fri, 05/10/2019 - 01:34

I agree with Sally, especially after hearing that some threads are tighter than others.  The "others" are the threads that are cutting through lower layers of warp.  7 yards is not a long warp, and I don't see why you shouldn't be able to weave linen on this loom.  The key is that you have to warp it carefully, under tight tension, and with ample seperation between layers.  This being a small loom, warp prep is critical.  The looms in my studio I warp using an overhead roller, with gallon jugs of water to weight the warp.  I have one small loom in my house that has no way to hang a roller;  I tie the warp chain to a kettle full of water and drag it across the floor.  Different, but it works.I routinely warp 20-30 yard warps without tension issues.  The small Baby Mac  will take about 15 yards, which is what I put on it.