Do we have a WAL?

I see April on the horizon and I'm ready for that diamond twill.  I have two 10 dent heddles at the ready, have wound a warp of 122 ends in a lovely, hand painted tencel from JOY (Just Our Yarn) and I'm ready to go.  Just looking for some buds to join me and Erica to say the word "go".

Claudia

Comments

Posted on Thu, 03/25/2010 - 17:12

I'm with you!!! I have no idea how to follow the draft in post #28 in the twill WAL to warp my loom. I've never used 2 heddles. Would you help me through the next step? I have the yarn. I have the 7.5 heddles. I have the will!!!

Posted on Thu, 03/25/2010 - 17:24

I am the one that wrote post #28.  If you give me a day or two I will draw out how to warp the loom for that Diamond Point Twill and post it here.

Susan

Posted on Fri, 03/26/2010 - 23:18

OK, I have drawn out the threading sequence of a RH loom.  Please don't laugh at my crude drawings.

First let us look at the 3S Diamond Point Twill draft.  This is what weavers normally start out with.  I have put each warp number in a different color.

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Now we have to translate the above to two Rigid Heddles.  I have used the same colors in the drawing.

It does look a bit confusing so we well start at the right and work our way left.  First the lines of holes represent the holes in each heddle and the space between the holes represents the heddle slots.  The top row of holes is the back heddle or Heddle II.  The bottom row of holes represents the front heddle or Heddle I.

Now the first red line on the right is Warp Thread #1.  It is threaded in the hole of Heddle I and through the slot of Heddle II that is to the right of the Heddle II hole behind the Heddle I.  Please note that the holes and slots of Heddle I and Heddle II are alligned with each other.  Some find it easier to mark their heddles every one inch.

The next line (blue) represents Warp Thread #2.  Note that it goes through the Heddle I slot that is to the left of the hole containing Warp Thread #1 and the it goes through the Heddle II hole that is directly behind the Heddle I hole containing Warp Thread #1.

The black line is Warp Thread #3 and it goes through both alligned slots of Heddle I and Heddle II.

This same sequence is used until we reach the "point" of our point twill sequence which is Warp Thread #1.  That is threaded the same but then the sequence changes.  Please notice the change in the way the left half of the Diamond Point Twill is threaded.  Also notice that there is an empty hole in Heddle II.

When this is threaded there will be one warp thread in every hole of Heddle I but in Heddle 2 there will be an empty hole in the middle of each pattern section.  Each slot of Heddle I will have two warp threads.  Heddle II slots will have two warp threads in every slot except the one in the middle of the drafting pattern.

On the right hand side of the Diamond Point Twill draft is the Treadling order.  To get shaft #1 we lift up Heddle I.  To get shaft  #2 we lift Heddle II.  To get shaft #3 we push down both heddles.

I would recommend making your own drawing to see how each Warp Thread needs to go thorugh the heddles.

The hardest thing about using two or more heddles is to get a clear shed.  With one heddle we use the heddle block by lifting the heddle on top of it or pushing the heddle under it.  But with two or more heddles this won't work.  The heddle blocks are only used for warping, not for weaving.  To help get a clear shed we bring both heddles forward so they are in front of the heddle blocks where they just sit on the warp.  To get Shaft #1 push both heddles together so they are touching each other and the front heddle block.  Now lift Heddle I while keeping Heddle II neutral.  To get Shaft #2, again push both heddles against the heddle block and lift Heddle II while keeping Heddle I neutral.  To get Shaft #3 push both heddles down.

We have another BUT here.  All looms are made a bit differently as are all weavers.  You may find better ways to get the clear sheds.  You might be able to lift Heddle II onto the front heddle block to get Shaft #2 or you might be able to push both heddles under the heddle block to get Shaft #3.  You will have to try different ways to find what works best for you.

Good luck with your project!

 

Posted on Sat, 03/27/2010 - 02:36

Thanks Susan!!!

I am so excited to try this out! These instructions make sense to me. I do have a few questions. When you warp for this you are using 24 warp thread over 9 slots if I'm reading this correctly. I am used to direct warping with 1 heddle where you pass 2 strands through each slot. There have to be some slots that you pass the yarn through twice (4 strands) to get enough warp threads. How should i do that? Do you thread the warp through both heddles at the time of warping or do you add the 2nd heddle in when you are arranging the warps into the right places? I know I am not using the proper terminology so forgive that please.-Deb

Posted on Sat, 03/27/2010 - 02:37

OMG! Susan, you ROCK!

This is the most amazing, easy perfect explanation I have EVER seen.  Thank you, thank you , thank you.  I laid in bed, unable to sleep last night, thinking about the threading plan for this project.  I was hopeful I finally understood it but you have mapped it out so nicely I can just print and go.

It's really kind of you to take your time to help straighten this out for everyone.  Thank you,

Claudia

Posted on Sat, 03/27/2010 - 14:58

Thank you, Deb and Claudia!  I am glad that everything made sense.  My personal peeve is when Handwoven puts out an article without the draft so it is hard to really understand what is going on.

Deb,

I have used both Direct and Indirect Warping when I have used more than one heddle but with the Direct Warping I have only used a 4 Shaft pattern so that I started out with 4 threads in each slot.

To do a 3 Shaft pattern I would recommend a modified Direct Warping method.

Hold all three threads together and tie off on the back warp beam.

Bring all three threads through the slot.

Cut and tie the three threads on your warping peg.

Repeat for three more times following the drafting pattern.

Now just tie Warp Thread #1 on the back, bring through the slot and tie it off on the warping peg.

Now take three threads and repeat as above for four times following the pattern.

Repeat the above sequence as many times as needed.

Now for your other question of holes and slots and number of threads.  Generally we when we count we usually consider the hole and slot a pair and don't just count holes or slots.  If I had an 8 dent heddle I would count 4 holes and 4 slots per inch.  So with the above 3S Diamond Point Twill I would have 12 ends per inch (EPI) with this 8 dent heddle when I count the number of threads in 4 holes and 4 slots.  If I was using a 10 dent heddle I would have 15 EPI by counting the number of threads in 5 holes and 5 slots.  Please note that I am only counting the front heddle and not the back.

Susan

Posted on Sat, 03/27/2010 - 17:49

Deb,

I reread your post and realized that I hadn't answered all of your questions.

If I am doing a Direct Warp I put the back heddle (Heddle II) in and direct warp through the slots of it.  I wind the warp on and thread the holes of Heddle II following my drawing.  After that I put Heddle I in and thread that again following my diagram.

If it is easier for you then put both heddles in place and Direct Warp through the slots of both at the same time.

Posted on Sun, 03/28/2010 - 00:55

Hi Susan,

Before I got your message today I did a little experimenting and tried direct warping the way I normally do for plain weave (just using the directions that came with my Ashford Rh Loom) but alternating with two passes (4 threads) in every other slot. I just did a small sample but it seemed like it could work. The way you described warping sounds like it would make for a nicely organized warp but I have never done all the cutting of each warp thread and tying each one on the beam and the peg and I am concerned about getting even tension. Is there a problem with this method I experimented with, that could cause a problem I haven't thought of? Will it be a jumbled mess at the end of the weave?

Thanks, I will put in one heddle and warp through it and then add the other.

Posted on Sun, 03/28/2010 - 02:57

Final tension is always determined at the end after the warp is wound on the back beam and the heddles are threaded.  It is not possible to get perfectly even tension across the warp when direct warping around a warping peg.  Tying the ends at the back beam and the warping peg just means we waste a bit more of the warp yarn.

When direct warping before I slip the warp off the warping peg I tightly tie the warp threads toegether about a yard apart.  I do this no matter if I am using the Direct Warping method or the Modified Direct Warping method.   If I am using the Indirect Warping method before I remove the warp off the warping board I also tie the warp threads tightly together about every yard.

If the way you did it works for you than don't change it.  But now you know there is another way.

Posted on Mon, 03/29/2010 - 19:22

What warp should start and finish at the left and right sides? I want to avoid that floating selvedge issue if i can. Do I start and stop on a slot? or on a hole in the front heddle?

Posted on Tue, 03/30/2010 - 04:40

I needed to free up my loom :-/

So it's woven & I need to do the finishing.  I've started hemming, then will wash, sew on buttons, etc...

 

http://www.weavolution.com/node/8661 has more details.

This was fun.  Then once the loom was free I knocked out two 14" x 80" scarves in 10 hrs....

I may do another twill in the next week for a relative undergoing surgery.

Posted on Tue, 03/30/2010 - 20:06

I want to double check something. I am in the process of threading the heddles. Should there be one skipped hole and slot  in heddle #1 and one skipped hole in heddle #2 in each repeat of the pattern?  Does this look like I did it correctly?

 

Posted on Wed, 03/31/2010 - 00:24

I have just completed about 4" but am so excited to see it showing the diamond twill.  I am thrilled this worked at last.

Thanks to Susan for all your hard work to explain, with a draft and a diagram, exactly how to thread both heddles. I think I finally get it and I don't need the pick up stick at all, thanks, again, to the very talented Craftinsusan.

Claudia

Posted on Wed, 03/31/2010 - 00:34

Awe, blush, blush, you are very welcome.  And you should take a bow to because you are the one that convinced me to be more active here on Weavolution.

So, congratulations!  Your twill looks great.

 

Posted on Wed, 03/31/2010 - 00:40

Susan,

My intuition was right, you have helped dig me out of the 2 heddle mess I was in.  I wasn't able to see the threading before and now I understand it so much better. 

Next, I will learn to do direct warping with 2 heddles.  For now, with a 4.5 yard warp, I am happy doing it on the warping reel and threading it through one heddle and then rethreading it from the back to the front.  Hard to teach an old dog new tricks : )

Claudia

Posted on Wed, 03/31/2010 - 13:00

Susan, I could NOT have figured this out without all your help and suggestions!! Thanks again!

ps I am realizing this morning that  I didn't do a waste yarn header.....should I redo it?

Posted on Wed, 03/31/2010 - 14:01

Congratulations!  It looks wonderful.

A header is put in at the beginning because the threads there are" V-shaped" due to tying on the warp thread instead of being parallel to each other.   We can use waste yarn or fabric strips or, my personal favorite, plastic grocery bags for a header and we weave until the warp is parallel to each other.

Should you start over and put a header in?  I don't know.  More than likely the first couple of rows of the fabric will distort unless you somehow secured them.  What plans to you have for this fabric?  If you plan on cutting it up for a purse, clothing, etc than this distortion won't matter since you can skip these rows.  Also you can zigzag with a sewing machine the row above the distorted yarns and then cut off the distortion.

You have gone so far already in the weaving that is seems a shame to unweave it.  You could try taking a yarn needle and some waste yarn and needle weave in some rows there are the beginning.  Use a fork or tapesty beater to push in each row of waste weaving.  There are also methods of securing the warp ends while the weaving is still on the loom.  There is no way I can describe them here but someone else might have a link to You-Tube or a site where it is described.  There are also books out there that describe the different ways.  Finishing Touches For The Handweaver by Virginia West is one book that I think is still be print.

Posted on Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:07

I've joined the WAL, but I'm having the same problem that momframer1 asked about in post 14.  I'm doing a repeat of the pattern, and where the repeat starts, I have an empty hole and slot in heddle one. Should the repeat start somewhere other than the end of the diagram?

Posted on Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:29

Do just what Susan said. Don't skip the hole and slot - put red #1 in the slot next to thread #24 in the back heddle and the hole to the left of the last filled slot.

Posted on Wed, 03/31/2010 - 15:46

There is an empty hole in Heddle #2, no empty slot.  If you follow the diagram Susan did you should be okay.  There are no empty holes in Heddle #1.  This diagram is drawn as if you are looking from the front of the loom to the back.


Heddle #2 is on the top of the diagram and Heddle #1 is at the bottom.

Hope that helps,
Claudia

Posted on Wed, 03/31/2010 - 16:01

I understand the diagram okay, but it's the start of the repeat that I can't visualize. When the repeat starts on the left of the diagram, the red goes in the next slot of heddle 2, and if it goes in the next empty hole, (the empty one shown on the diagram), it seems that the diamond will be going the wrong way, like it's repeating the half that was just done instead of starting a new one.

Posted on Wed, 03/31/2010 - 17:24

I know what your concerns are, because I had the same ones. I do not know why or how but it does work.  Susan told me to leave no hole or slot in heddle #1 empty, so that is what I did....and it worked.

Posted on Wed, 03/31/2010 - 17:59

I see how that can be confusing.  When you do the repeat, the first thread of the repeat is in the next slot on heddle 2 and the next hole on heddle 1.  As you go along, there will be a slight jog that forms between heddles 2 and 1.  I believe it's unavoidable to get the twill pattern to work.

Claudia

Posted on Wed, 03/31/2010 - 18:03

I want to apologize to everyone but I made a mistake in the drawing I posted.  I should have started another repeat.  I am so proud of everyone who questioned what was going on.  I forgot to take into account the change from 123 to 321 which happens when one repeat ends and the next begins.  When that happens there will be an empty hole in Heddle I.  That may also explain why people were emailing me asking why the warp started slanting to the left.  I am sooooooooooooooo very sorry for my mistake!

Because of the change in direction we have to skip a hole in Heddle I and because of that single #1 we have to skip a hole in Heddle II.

I am so embarrassed.

Susan

Posted on Thu, 04/01/2010 - 00:04

Please don't be embarrassed!!!  I am so grateful for all your help on this weaving project. I think I learned so much more doing this because of a few tiny bumps in the road, that made me have to think through all the "whys".

Posted on Thu, 04/01/2010 - 02:55

Well, mine is slightly crooked between the two heddles but the pattern is showing up nicely so I don't think I'll change it now.  I hope to have enough warp for 2 scarves and will but the first one off when I finish and fix the threading for the second scarf.

Thanks Susan for straightening us out, in so many ways : )

Claudia

Posted on Thu, 04/01/2010 - 12:15

I just reread your post and am now a bit confused.  Do we skip 1 hole in heddle 2 when the diamond changes direction and one hole in heddle 1 when the repeat starts over?  Your note seems to indicate we skip 2 holes in heddle 2 and 1 hole in heddle 1. 

I just want to get it straight for when I re-thread after this scarf.

Thanks,
Claudia

Posted on Thu, 04/01/2010 - 12:15

I just reread your post and am now a bit confused.  Do we skip 1 hole in heddle 2 when the diamond changes direction and one hole in heddle 1 when the repeat starts over?  Your note seems to indicate we skip 2 holes in heddle 2 and 1 hole in heddle 1. 

I just want to get it straight for when I re-thread after this scarf.

Thanks,
Claudia

Posted on Thu, 04/01/2010 - 13:01

Yes, we skip 1 hole in Heddle 2 when the diamond changes direction in the middle of the pattern and then the one hole in Heddle 1 when the repeat starts over (this also happens to be a change in direction).

If you are doing two repeats then you will have two skipped holes in Heddle 2 each in the middle of the pattern and one skipped hole in Heddle 1 where the pattern starts its repeat.

If you are doing three repeats then you will have three skipped holes in Heddle2 and two skipped holes in Heddle 1.

I can't figure out how to edit my second drawing post to clarlfy what I did.  The red, blue and black lines are the original part of the drawing with only half of the first pattern showing and I only did part of the second repeat which I did in pencil and put numbers under the warp threads.  On this second drawing I just wanted to show what is happening when the pattern repeats.  Please draw it out yourself doing at least two pattern repeats.

 

Claudia, Deb and everyone who already warped their looms,

If you are getting a clear shed and the pattern is correct then there is no reason why you have to rewarp it.  In this case, the skipped holes in Heddle 1 would prevent the warp jogging to the left.  We try to keep the warp threads as straight as possible to help get clear sheds.  If we were weaving a very wide width with a lot of repeats than if the Heddle 1 holes weren't skipped the jog to the left when warping from right to left would get very bad.  If we are weaving a narrow scarf with only a few repeats then this jog isn't that bad and perhaps won't prevent us from getting a clear shed.  So if you are getting a clear shed and correct pattern then don't bother to rewarp.  Just write a note in your project page.

Posted on Thu, 04/01/2010 - 16:10

After an evening of warping, I have about 3 inches of not-quite-diamond twill and one perfect one-inch example. (My ability to count things fades after 10 p.m.) With more practice at the "treadling," it should improve. Thanks to Susan--the diagram was very helpful. My not-quite-diamond made me curious about what other patterns one could get with this tie-up, and I found this online.









Sorry for the Microsoft junk. I don't know how to get rid of it.






http://www.ktu.lt/lt/mokslas/zurnalai/medz/medz0-88/17%20Textile...(pp.79-82).pdf



Posted on Thu, 04/01/2010 - 16:27

I tried to clean up the Microsoft "junk" but it wasn't there when I viewed your post in Firefox.  Sorry.

The link is great.  What a fascinating article.  Too bad we don't have 25 treadles or a 24 shaft loom.  All the great treadling to be done on one "simple" threading.

Claudia

Posted on Fri, 04/02/2010 - 00:47

I wouldn't ... I bet when you take it off the loom you can poke those threads together a bit. Especially at a the wide setts RH looms give you and with a stretchy, forgiving yarn. It will also pull in a little in width when you take if off the loom and wet finish. I could be wrong, but that's my guess...