Countermarch heddle length and lamm length

There is a question in the chat forum about the number of shafts one can have on a countermarch loom.  This came from a comment from Madelyn van der Hoogt in a new e publication from Handwoven magazine.  The comment she made is from her experience with her Glimakra Standard looms, which she purchased in the 80s.   I believe that she has heddles which are too long and that can cause complications in the tie-ups.   One should also take note of falling shafts, which also has a bearing on the subject Madelyn was referring to.  These two issues make a big difference on how many shafts one can tie up on a countermarch loom.   Since countermarch tie-ups are something that I have studied a long time, I am learning some of the things which were done in the past with Glimakra countermarch looms. 

During the early years of countermarch looms coming to the US, hand tied heddles were used.  Technically, one can tie heddles whatever length you would like, but the Glimakra looms came with heddles which were 10 1/2 inches long.  This is the same length of the heddles on most floor looms at that time, including Leclerc looms, which were very common then.  A 10 1/2 inch heddle will give one a good size shed, at least 4 inches at the shafts.  But, when Texsolv heddles came in about 1980, someone recommended using longer heddles and the distributor started to send longer heddles with the looms. The factory recommended 11 inch heddles.  This size gives one a very large shed.  In fact, it is often easier to weave if you do not have the maximum shed size that 11 inch heddles can give you.

If you have had problems with your countermarch tie-up, especially if you are weaving with more than 8 shafts, measure the length of your heddles.  If you have heddles longer than 11 inches, part of your problem is that your heddles are longer than is recommended. 

It is also helpful to know about a change which was made to the lower lamms of countermarch looms during the early 80s.  If you have an older loom from the 70s which has the lower lamms the same length as the upper lamms, you will find that the shafts will drop when the locking pins are taken out.  This causes the treadles to rise and may cause lamms to touch the treadles.  You can either upgrade your loom with heavier, longer lower lamms, or you can weight the lower lamms.  I describe this on page 26 of my book, Tying up the Countermarch Loom. 

If anyone is having problems with their tie-up, let me know.  When one has a loom which is out of date or has heddles or other parts which have been changed, you have a loom which may not be performing at it's best.

Joanne

 

Comments

Posted on Tue, 05/24/2011 - 01:01

Thanks Joanne, this is good to know about. I have not put the remaining 4 shafts and lams on my loom yet. I appreciate knowing what to look for with the lower lamms because I do have one of the older Standards and the upper and lower lamms are the same lagnth.
Claudia

Posted on Tue, 05/24/2011 - 20:13

One should note that the optimum heddle length varies with loom.  On my countermarch LeClerc Weavebird with 32 shafts, the heddles are a whopping 14".  It is engineered to work at this size and 10.5 or 11" heddles would not.  It works.  I think LeClerc could go to smaller heddles by making the shafts thinner and closer together, but don't see that happening in the near future (I've suggested it several times).  The Weavebirds with fewer shafts have shorter heddles.

Laurie Autio

Posted on Thu, 05/26/2011 - 14:20

Thanks to Joanne's posts on here earlier I changed the lower lamms of my elderly Glimakra 10 shaft loom, and it made a lot of difference! I am very grateful that this piece of information came my way :-)

Posted on Thu, 05/26/2011 - 15:30

Thanks Ellen,

Are you planning to attend the VÄV conference in Borås?  We will be there.

Joanne

Posted on Fri, 05/27/2011 - 15:37

I will look forward to saying hello to you, Joanne :-)

This will be my first visit to the Swedish event and I am very excited about it. I hope I can find you, I have the impression it is HUGE!

Ellen

Posted on Fri, 05/27/2011 - 15:53

Hi Ellen,

Yes, sometimes when several buses of weavers comes at once, it can be hard to walk through the hall.  We will be at the Glimakra booth much of the time, so you can find us there.  Karin Myrehed, who mades the drawlooms will be there also.  Be sure to visit with her.

Joanne

Posted on Wed, 08/03/2011 - 13:42

Joanne, I've been trying to work out how different heddle sizes affect the size of the shed, and cannot quite grasp the principle.  Surely, whatever the size of the heddle, the eye will always be centred between the top and bottom shaft rails, and the size of the shed will be related to the amount that the shafts rise and fall.  Isn't this just a function of the range of movement of the jacks and nothing to do with the heddle size? :)

Mike

Posted on Wed, 08/03/2011 - 14:01

I'm not Joanne, but

1. Heddles that are too short cause the shed to shorten because when the other loom parts would like to open the shed more, the rising warp threads are stopped by the sinking shaft frame and vice versa.

2. Heddles can be overly long as well, and in that case, you simply do not get more out of your tieup.

Countermarche looms generally have shaft frames made of two sticks with no fixed distance between - you have quite a bit of room to experiment. If you want to test this out, try making a few string heddles in varying lengths.

Posted on Wed, 08/03/2011 - 16:11

Sarah is correct.  I would like to add (specific to your question) that a well designed loom has jacks long enough that they would not restrict the size of the shed. 

In addition, the horizontal countermarch has a V shaped cord coming from the jacks in the center of the loom and then a vertical cord going down from the V to the lower lamms. This V shape also has to be large enough that it will not restrict the opening of the shed.

There are other factors in opening a shed.  But, it is important to note that for weaving purposes, the shed should be as small as possible for easy opening of the shed, for keeping the tension tight and for weaving a good product.

Joanne

Posted on Sun, 10/09/2011 - 15:19

Hi Joanne,

  I'm having some of those problems with my loom.  I've woven on this loom before, but have put it aside for other projects this past year.  This is my Glimakra Standard, countermarche.  I'm weaving a plain weave, log cabin cloth.  I tied everything up, started to weave, get a shed for about two or three shots before everthing goes off kilter.  I'm wondering about that V shaped cord, now.  So, how long should it be?  I'm also wondering if it is time for me to replace cords.  These are original linen cords which are pretty worn out, beginning to break even.  I like linen cords, and wondering if I should replace with linen again, or go to texsolv.  Anyway, I'm going to need some help to get this present weaving up and going.  TIA

Janet

Posted on Sun, 10/09/2011 - 15:53

Hi Janet,

Since you have woven successfully on the loom before, there must be a tie up problem that you have over looked.  So, check to see that treadle cords, which you may have changed are on the right side of their lower lamms. Check anything that you may have changed. 

Also, plain weave can be threaded on two or four shafts.  Weavers who have woven on jack looms will sometimes thread it on 8 shafts just because they are there.  Did you do that?

Joanne

Posted on Mon, 10/10/2011 - 19:24

Weaving fine this morning.  I started over with my tie ups.  I changed out one of the V cords which was shorter than the others.  Changed another cord that had a messy knot that was hanging up on itself.  Poked myself with a # 9 steel crochet hook in the process.

But I now have nice clear sheds and my log cabin is coming right along.

Thanks again.

Posted on Tue, 10/11/2011 - 21:11

I read all the problems diffrent person have with your countermarsh-loom.

Take a look at Öxabäcks looms. Öxabäcks looms are designed by Ulla Cyrus and there is NO problems at all. I have 16 of them in my weaving-class at Grebbestads folkhögskola on the Swedish westcoast.

Öxabäck is the Rolls Roys of looms !!!! Glimåkra is like a Volvo or any other car

 

Best regards from Margareta Ovelius

Posted on Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:45

Well, if an Oxaback is like a Rolls Royce and a Glimakra is like a Volvo, my Varpa is like a Sherman Tank.  I'm not sure that there is any brand of CM that is really "best".  What matters most is how well they work.  I know of several Toyota and Honda cars that have driven many more miles than any Rolls Royce ever has, so what brand of car is really superior?

Candace

Posted on Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:58

The Oxaback (Ulla Cyrus model) has some features not found on other looms of similar construction. The treadles are shaped in such a way that the usual methods of putting slack in the tie cords as they progress from front to back are not needed - ring cords of equal length put into metal holders are all that is needed.

They also make two systems of countermarche - the traditional pivoting lams and floating lams. The floating lams are supported on both sides and move straight up and down and are recommended for rug weaving and looms with more than 12 shafts.

The Ulla Cyrus model is a foot deeper on looms with more than 12 shafts so that shed formation is better with many shafts - they will produce looms with up to 20 shafts - more than any other CM loom maker.

Also, vertical countermarche is standard on all their models, including the smaller Lilla which means no center cords, and like Ulla Cyrus I believe the vertical coupers are easier to balance - not to mention better suited to drawloom attachments.

If any of these features are something you need in your weaving, then the loom is better than competing models that do not have them.

Posted on Sun, 01/08/2012 - 14:01

Joanne thank you for this clarification .
I owned two glimakra looms (standard horizantal counter marche)both second hand, durning the late 90's .
I replaced every thing to texsolve and longer lambs etc, but still had a heck of a time. After about 5 yrs gave up. And sold them, if I can recall what length texsolve heddles I had I bet it would have solved the problems and e ded the mystery!
Thank you for this, even though I do not have the looms any more , I think glimakra products are fantastic, I always wondered about what that catch was!

Posted on Sun, 01/08/2012 - 14:26

I've just purchased a new-to-me Glimakra 110cm Standard Countermarch/Counterbalance loom. The lamm and treadle bundles were wrapped in newspaper dated from 1993, so that was the year it had been taken apart for storage.

 

The lower lamms are longer, so I lucked out there. The heddles were string and few in number, so I added a few bundles Texsolv heddles and found that the Texsolv from my supply were a bit longer. So all heddles have to be changed to Texsolv to match up unless I want to tie more string heddles. Is there an aftermarket for old string 10-1/2-inch heddles?

Sounds like string heddles at 10-1/2 are ideal.

Posted on Sun, 01/08/2012 - 16:32

Those old hand tied heddles were usually 10 1/2 inches long, according to the many weavers who have written to me to get Texsolv heddles.  So, it was very surprising when I learned that many who purchase used looms had 13 inch long Texsolv heddles.  I just spoke with another weaver who has purchased a used Glimakra and sure enough, the Texsolv heddles are 13 inches long.  That really complicates the tie-up.  And half of her shaft bars were cut shorter because those long heddles cause the shaft bars to hit the side frame of the loom, so that stops the shed from opening.  Cutting the shaft bars shorter allows them to go down further and this is not the first loom I have heard about where that was done. So, now she has to deal with shaft bars which are too short and she is purchasing new 11 inch heddles.  But, the loom will still work very well and she will be very happy with it.

Joanne

Posted on Sun, 01/22/2012 - 20:41

Oh, Sara, I just found out that you sell these.  They are lovely looms.

Posted on Mon, 01/23/2012 - 16:39

I have wrestled with many looms, and it seems to me that the heddles need not be much longer than the heddle horses or countermarche levers that control the shafts... longer heddles won't go any further down than these parts will let them, right?

Posted on Mon, 06/25/2012 - 09:32

I have just purchased an older Toika countermarch loom, from the late 1970's. Unfortunately, there are no heddles included. I will buy some new Texsolv heddles, but am unsure what length to buy. I have read all the comments in this discussion, but feel unsure which length to choose. Could other weavers please let me know what length of heddle they are using?

 

Posted on Mon, 06/25/2012 - 14:56

If your breast beam height is less than 35 inches, I would suggest 10 1/2 inch heddles.  Your lamms need space to move so that they do not touch each other or touch the treadles when you are treadling.  If the breast beam height is 35 inches or more, then the 11 inch will be fine.

Joanne

Posted on Mon, 06/25/2012 - 15:32

Finnish looms tend to be a bit rangier than the Sweish ones. My old LIlqvist (no longer made, but like a Varpa or Toika in its dimensions) was originally outfitted with a Texsolv 310mm heddle (unfortunately no longer made). The 280/12 (11")from Texsolv are now the "standard" heddle for countermarche looms of most manufacturers. The 280 is the length of the heddle between the joins that go around the shaft frame and the 12 is the length of the heddle eye. There are various eye sizes available as well depending on what you wish to do with your loom.

I personally find it much more exact to refer to the metric sizes for the Texsolv as the fraction of inch descriptions don't convey the exactness needed.

Posted on Wed, 06/27/2012 - 03:40

Hi Yvonne -

I have a 1985 Toika Liisa and I use heddles 12.25" long. They work just fine. I have never had a problem with the shed.

Robin

Posted on Wed, 06/27/2012 - 04:12

Those 12.25" heddles are exactly the 310/12 heddles I had for 30+ years on a Finnish loom. They do work well, except that they are no longer on the market. The substitrutions are either the 280mm (11") or the 330mm(13") heddles. The 330mm heddles can be a bit long.

Best thing would be to tie some string heddles in the current TExsolv sizes, test the loom and order what works best.

Posted on Wed, 06/27/2012 - 15:00

The 267 mm seem to be fine on my home built loom. I'm not doing a whole lot of weaving yet until I make some metal ratchets, but I have made a couple throws for "practice". The latest one I just removed from the loom Sunday and it's wool. It's been raining back east here all the time since last Friday, so I have not fulled and air dried it yet.

We've had enough rain now thanks. I need to get to the woods for work. :)

Posted on Fri, 06/29/2012 - 00:43

Hello Yvonne,

When I got my 150cm 12S 70s Toika earlier this year, it came with 318/12 heddles that a past owner had fitted, but they were also very stretched. Because I also wanted more heddles than came with the loom, I did a fair bit of research about sizing before opting to replace the entire lot of heddles with 280/12s instead. I made my decision based on the quality of the fabric I hoped to produce, rather than talk about biggest sheds etc. While the new heddles were an investment that, with a new tie-up system, cost almost as much as I paid for the loom (!) it was the right decision for me  - the loom balanced perfectly without any crashing of lamms etc, the heddles give a very effective & efficient shed, and the weaving with this loom is a delight.

Posted on Thu, 06/13/2013 - 20:08

I'm reluctant to ask this, but I'm in a time/money bind.

On a Glimakra Standard countermarch loom, what would be the effect of having 10.5" string heddles on shafts 1-4 and 11" texsolv heddles on shafts 5-8? 

My guess is that the threads in the longer heddles will not be under the same tension in the shed making the shed sloppy and making weaving well difficult (impossible?).

Can it be tied up to minimize problems resulting from the different length heddles? 

Unless someone warns me off of this ridiculous idea, I'm going to play with this over the next few days to see what I can figure out.

Thanks...

Posted on Thu, 06/13/2013 - 20:46

What you will run into, is kind of like having two different sized harnasses back to back. The jack cords on four shafts are going to be different length than the other 4 shafts and the cords from the shaft bottoms down to the upper lamms on 4 shafts will be different lengths than the other 4. You will want the warp, when at rest, to be at one level across the loom width. Maintain that even warp, then it may work out. In other words, the heddle eyes should all line up at one height above the floor. Maybe this will help you think it through. :) You may end up with lamms colliding with shafts and treadles.

Posted on Sun, 06/16/2013 - 17:16

Clarification please so that we are all on the same page: When referencing a specific heddle length - e.g. 10 1/2" or 11" or when placing an order for heddles, where is that dimension actually taken? Is it from the cut cord end to the other cut cord end of a single heddle, or is it from the inside of the top loop to the inside of the bottom loop of a heddle?
Chris

Posted on Tue, 10/14/2014 - 20:46

I enjoy weaving on my 150cm Ulla Cyrus loom, which I bought last year. It's an old one, no. 13 to be precise. My most recent project was 20 m of rep weave carpets (in my hand-dyed silk!). Having woven on jack looms in the past, I have not quite figured out the balancing act of adjusting all the metal clips and all the lengths of texsolv, and my shed continues to be uneven. Could someone (maybe Sara?) explain a mental approach I can adopt to balance this loom? I've been winging it, with mixed results, but would now like to be more systematic. (I bought Tying Up the Countermarch Loom, which was all based on the Glimakra and did not help me resolve my problems.) What is Step One? What is the first thing that should be adjusted, which acts as a reference point for everything else? Centering the heddle-holes with the warp?

I'm losing patience with this loom, and the AVL in the other room keeps trying to seduce me.

Thanks in advance

Kate

 

Posted on Wed, 10/15/2014 - 02:12

Hi Kate,

There are some things that you can check. 

First, get down at the front of the loom and push down on a treadle with your hand.  Look to see if the lower lamms touch the treadles, a lower lamm touches or moves beyond an upper lamm and if an upper lamm touches a shaft.  Look at the diagram on the top of page 24.  Each moving part needs space to move.  If the treadles touch the floor before the shed is large enough, then raise them.  Far more common is having the treadles tied up too high.   If a treadle touches a lower lamm when you push on a treadle, the easiest solution is to lower the treadle.  Do this with all the treadles.  Lowering the treadles may solve your problem.  Sometimes raising the upper lamms solves the problems.  Each loom is different.

Then when you have decided that you have that your loom tied up to satisfy the diagram, move on to checking the balance.

Read the bottom of page 26.  Take the locking pins out and tell us if anything happens.

Then,  treadle each shed and write down what the shed is like.  This is on page 25.   Let us know how you are doing.

Joanne

Posted on Thu, 10/16/2014 - 12:38

Dear Joanne,

 

Thank you so much for responding!

 

I followed your instructions and found part of the problem.
I had never connected the suspenders to the cords at the side of the loom, so
these were way too short, and the upper lamms consequently not horizontal.

 

I followed your instructions, inserted the pin (which felt a
bit like giving the loom a lobotomy) and balanced all the heddle frames. This
involved making cord extensions out of small-size texsolv. Now the frames hang
perfectly.

 

Then I addressed the cords at the side of the loom, adding
the metal suspenders. The upper lamms now hang perfectly horizontally.

 

Then I retied the short lamms. Also horizontal.

 

Then I tried weaving. Treadles 1-4 made a perfect shed, with
the most even surface I’ve ever achieved in this loom. Hoorah!

 

But treadles 5-8 get progressively worse. 7 and 8 touch the
ground before the warp can barely yawn.

 

So I lobotomised it again. And tightened the cords at the
side of the loom and tried weaving again. Alas, tightening these had no effect
whatsoever. Treadles 7 and 8 are still impotent.

 

When you say ‘lowering’ and ‘raising’ the treadles, which
cables/cords are you suggesting I adjust? The lamms are connect to the treadles
with texsolv and rings, so they can only be adjusted by fixed distances,
specifically, the distance of one texsolv hole (about 3 cm).

 

If I shorten those, should I shorten them ALL the same
amount, i.,e, one hole? Or do I need to tie up the treadles with a different
system, one less granular one that would allow for higher-precision
refinements?

 

Many thanks in advance,

Kate

Posted on Thu, 10/16/2014 - 13:22

Does your Ulla Cyrus loom have the ring tieup system? The ones sold currently have shaped treadles that provide the adjustment that is needed from back to front so the tieup cords are all the same length - either short or long, and they plug into a metal rod on the treadle.

If your loom is built this way, you do not follow the usual tieup instructions for countermarche looms.

If you have flat treadles with no metal rods, then you'd go with "normal" adjustments.

I do have a CD with slide show that covers assembling, tying up and warping the current Ulla Cyrus model.

Posted on Thu, 10/16/2014 - 14:56

just a note: many of the older looms with flat treadles also have the metal rod.

(for the flat treadles, myself I would prefer the other texsolv cord, which has smaller holes, therefore shorter adjustment possible)

Posted on Thu, 10/16/2014 - 14:57

I am glad that you have some success.  When there is a problem with sheds, it might just be the lengths of the treadle cords and raising those treadles where you do not have a shed.  But I am not at your loom to see your tie-up.

So, make sure that your other tie-ups are good.  Go back to my first suggestion.  Get down at the front of the loom and press on the treadles, one at a time, with your hand.  It is very important that there is equal space between the shafts, upper lamms, lower lamms and the treadles so that there is enough space for each to move.  If you see any of these moving parts hitting or going beyond another part, your shed cannot fully open.  Then, you need to make adjustments to the height of your lamms. 

Having the lamms level is a good way to start the first time you tie up a loom which is new to you.   But, before you start to change the lengths of treadle cords, you need to adjust the heights of the lamms.   In my book, I suggest that you evaluate these three spaces (diagram top of page 24).  Each countermarch loom is made differently.  Some Finnish looms have an adjustment for the height that the lamms are attached.  I don't know if your loom has this.     Some looms require the upper lamms to be slanted upward to equalize these spaces.  When tying up 8 or more shafts, equalizing these three spaces is even more important.

When the lamms and treadles do not hit any other moving parts, you can then adjust the treadle cords.

I don't know what metal suspenders are.  Before Texsolv, there were some metal shaft adjusters which were discontinued when Texsolv was used.

And you use the terms upper lamms and short lamms.  By upper lamms, do you mean the jacks in the countermarch?

And you use the phrase, balance the heddle frames.  When we tie up shafts the first time, we make sure the shafts hang at the right height.  Is this what you mean?  We use the term balance when we are evaluating a tie-up after it is finished.

Joanne

Posted on Thu, 10/16/2014 - 22:51

It's not going well. I worked on it for a few more hours, climbing around in the mouse zone. But now I understand what the problem is. 

Sara- yes, my loom's treadles have metal rod, and it came with rings tied to the large-size texsolv as treadle ties. The treadles are not curved but flat. The loom is from the 1940s, I presume.

The problem is that the lamms rotate on a fulcrum, so that the points closer to the fulcrum travel a shorter distance. The treadles also  rotate on a fulcrum. Currently I have tied everything up using 'long cords' and 'short cords', which are all equal lengths, respectively. But actually, the cords need to be graduated in length, from treadle 1 to treadle 10, and from harness 1 to harness 12. 

(The long and short cords came with the loom and were made by the previous owner, who was trained in Sweden. How did she make these geometries work?)

Sorry, Joanne, by 'upper lamms', I meant 'long lamms'. By 'balancing' I meant making sure the harnesses hung at the correct height. My loom has metal shaft adjusters, and a mish-mash of polyester cord and texsolv trussing it all up.

My plan for tomorrow is to cut all new pieces of medium-sized texsolv, burn the ends, and make new treadle ties that are more adjustable, and to re-try and re-tie.

Thanks for all your help and encouragement. I appreciate it very much. 

Kate

Posted on Fri, 10/17/2014 - 01:33

Kate, it's short lamms on top, long lamms on bottom.   That is, if your lamms are not of equal length, then the shorter ones are placed on the upper pivot bar and connect to cords to the bottom of the shafts.  The long lamms are on the lower pivot bar and connect to cords at the opposite side. If you have Joanne's book, see page 21. It is the same for both horizontal and vertical countermarches.  Without pictures, I can't quite tell if we are talking about the same thing and perhaps stumbling over all the new terminology.

 

 

Posted on Fri, 10/17/2014 - 13:51

Kate,

From the ongoing comments, I think you are not fully into your loom and its construction. You have an early Ulla Cyrus loom with the flat treadles and ring tieup system, VERTICAL countermarche, pivoting lams. This is somewhat different from, say, the Glimakra Standard.

You should study a book based on this type of loom "Swedish Weaving" by Eriksson, GUstavsson and Lovallius - sold by Vavstuga in Massachusetts, by our shop and other weaving suppliers - is based on exactly this loom type. At this point, "correcting" what you have will be more difficult than simply untying the loom, learning how it is to be set up, and starting over.

Note: Laila Lundell's "Big Book of Weaving" is an excellent reference as well.

When starting over, try setting up your loom with only four shafts and six treadles - this makes for 24 connections to adjust. If you try with more - eight treadles and eight shafts you have 64 connections to adjust - doable later, but first you need to understand your loom.


 

Posted on Fri, 10/17/2014 - 20:10

So how do you attach texsolv cords to lamms with hooks instead of holes?  Loop the cord over the hook and peg it with an anchor pin? Ignore the hook and go around the lamm bar, or something else? 

When pegging at the lamms instead of under the treadles, I find it much easier to work from back to front, setting the back cords taut then lengthening as I come forward -- so the exact opposite of pegging underneath the treadles.

Posted on Sat, 12/29/2018 - 23:25

I have a used Varpapuu Finlandia.  The loom body was kept safely packed away for many years, but the shafts and lamms were either not as well protected, not original, or not as well finished to begin with, and are now starting to splinter and catch on heddles, etc.  I would like to replace them, and was considering making the replacements thinner so the loom can accommodate more harnesses.  I know that changing the weight will also require adjusting the treadles and their weights, but I don't know how to figure out how much.  Are there any resources for what the relationship between the weights of shaft bars/lamms/treadles should be?  Is it a direct ratio?

Posted on Fri, 01/04/2019 - 11:45

I have gauged it by cubic feet of jack + upper lam <= lower lam < upper lam + shaft <= treadle > lower lam. Stay within that and your good. Assuming same wood species. :)

Posted on Sun, 01/06/2019 - 03:48

Another thing that works is to weigh the shafts and upper lamms, which should equal the weight of the lower lamms.  I use a fisherman's scale (digital scale with hook) that I use for weighing cones.  If your loom balances, it would a LOT easier to sand them and add a smooth finish (spray shellac or poly works well) than to replace and rebalance.  You can spend a lot of time balancing a multi shaft loom. If you make the lamms or shafts too thin, they will tend to buckle.  I have had to replace too thin lamms, and intend to reinforce one loom's thin shafts with graphite.