Double Weave with Counterbalance Loom

I have a Louet David and can't figure out how to do the tie up.  With most patterns I tie up the shafts the opposite of what is written so the unused shafts won't raise and the working shaft does raise.  However, this isn't working.  Because I want to weave pick up, I don't want to tie up so the pattern shows on the bottom instead of the top.  The tie-up is 1 - 2 - 1&2 - 3&4 - 3 - 4.  Any help would be greatly appreciated  I'm all warped and ready to go!!!

Comments

Posted on Sat, 04/30/2011 - 21:31

Remember that a black square or an X in a treadle tie up draft means that shaft will be down when you open the shed.  The empty square represents the shafts which are up.  If there is a number in your draft, you have to read the introduction to the book, or the explanation in the draft to know what that number means.  If it is a new book, new draft, it probably means 'up', as numbers are being used for looms which have a lot of shafts and are run by computers.

Joanne

Posted on Thu, 07/14/2011 - 07:49

JoAnne,

I am having similar difficulties with my Countermarche. I would like to weave a double weave sampler, from Handwoven. It have all the possible double weave methods, on it. I saw on the Glimkra website, that you can do skeleton tie ups on the CM. I can't quite figure out how this works.

I tried tying up just the rising sheds, but all the treadles sank to the floor, when I took the rod out of the top bit (can't think of what that's called at the moment).

Posted on Thu, 07/14/2011 - 13:59

Hi Erica,

I would just tie up the treadles as they need to be for the first part of the sampler.  Then when you go on to the next part, you will probably just need to add a couple treadles to your tie-up.  Just do this as you progress through the sampler.  It is not necessary to start with all the treadles tied up for all of the parts of the sampler.  And a skeleton tie-up is probably not necessary.  That is used for weaves like summer and winter where you do not have enough treadles.  If you are weaving a four shaft double weave, you will have enough treadles.  And if you don't, it only takes about two or three minutes to change the tie-up of one treadle.  You will spend more time tying to devise a treadle tie-up that works for all the weaves on the sampler.

Joanne

Posted on Thu, 07/14/2011 - 14:17

I can't begin to tell you what the problem is with your loom, but I can tell you that I've successfully woven doubleweave (using double width technique) on my counterbalance loom several times.  Also lace weaves (I mention because they're also 1 shaft against 3).  I haven't had any problems with my treadles sinking to the floor.  For doubleweave/double width, using a straight draw threading (1-2-3-4), I've successfully used both a direct tieup (1, 2, 3, 4) and a multi-shaft tieup (1, 123, 134, 4).  My treadling is then 1, (1st shot of top layer), 123 (1st shot of bottom layer) 134 (2nd shot of bottom layer), 3 (2nd shot of top layer).  

If you're doing pickup, I assume you're using 2 shuttles.  In which case the treadling would be, I believe, 1, 3, 123, 134.

So...it would seem your tieup would need to be a bit different than what you explain above.  You need treadles 1 and 3 isolated.  So you could use 1, 12, 3, 34.  Then when you need to treadle 123, you step on treadles 2 and 3.  When you need to treadle 134 you step on treadles 1 and 4.

Or simply tie them up as I did (see above).

Hope this helps!!

Posted on Thu, 07/14/2011 - 14:36

Hmm, I think I'll just transfer the warp to my table loom. I'm doing an 8 shaft double weave sampler in twill, that works through all the various double weave possibilities. After you weave two layers, you switch the layer on top and do it again. It's the sampler from handwoven that turns into a great wall hanging that you can hang your shuttles in, etc. 

Thanks for the suggestion JoAnne, but I'd have to change the tie up every 2". Moving this to the other loom, will allow me to warp the Glimakra for tubular double weave, for which I have the required number of treadles, as the top layer stays the same.

I hope this fully explains the problem, and I do still welcome any suggestions! JoAnne, I hope the next time I'm in the States, I can take one of your classes. Or perhaps you'll have time to offer some countermarch weaving classes here on Weavolution! I still have a lot to learn about weaving on a Countermarch loom!

Cheers,

Erica

Posted on Thu, 07/14/2011 - 14:36

Hmm, I think I'll just transfer the warp to my table loom. I'm doing an 8 shaft double weave sampler in twill, that works through all the various double weave possibilities. After you weave two layers, you switch the layer on top and do it again. It's the sampler from handwoven that turns into a great wall hanging that you can hang your shuttles in, etc. 

Thanks for the suggestion JoAnne, but I'd have to change the tie up every 2". Moving this to the other loom, will allow me to warp the Glimakra for tubular double weave, for which I have the required number of treadles, as the top layer stays the same.

I hope this fully explains the problem, and I do still welcome any suggestions! JoAnne, I hope the next time I'm in the States, I can take one of your classes. Or perhaps you'll have time to offer some countermarch weaving classes here on Weavolution! I still have a lot to learn about weaving on a Countermarch loom!

Cheers,

Erica

Posted on Thu, 07/14/2011 - 14:47

Ok here are some more thoughts. I've got layers warped on 1-4 and 5-8. Since every other treadling section requires the top layer to be lifted. I could tie the treadles like this example:

Section 1 1-4 top layer.

Tie treadles for the top layer such that 5-8 sink when the treadled is pressed

For the next section that the pegs out of the 5-8 treadle, so the treadles can be used with the treadle that raises 5-8. 

Does this make sense? Will is it work?

Thanks!

Posted on Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:57

Hi Erica,

It is very tedius to move the levers of a table loom.  I would much prefer changing the countermarch tie-ups.  In the end, a 10 or 15 minute treadle tie-up change would be worth it to be able to weave this on the countermarch loom.

Joanne

Posted on Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:50

I've gotten pretty good with the levers and don't midn the table looms for short things, such as samplers. However I do think this is a better solution than having to rewarp and sleigh the whole thing, which is already fully on the Glimakra! :)

It will also help me speed up my tie up time, especially since I need the practice.

Thanks for your help JoAnne!

Erica

Posted on Fri, 07/15/2011 - 13:23

Hi Erica,

The skeleton tie-up, especially when you have 8 shafts is done for a specific weave.  And if you decide to tie up so that you use two feet, you can also tie up with elastics, like on a drawloom.  But if you try to tie up the loom as a jack loom, you need to add heavy metal bars on the shaft bars.  Jack tie-ups require heavy shafts, heavy enough to hold them in their lower position, resisting the pull of the weight of the lamms and treadles.  So, this is not a good idea.  It is much easier to change the treadle cords when you move on to the next part of the sampler.

Joanne

Posted on Thu, 07/28/2011 - 18:41

Thanks Joanne!

I did decide in the end to just change the tie up for each section. You're right it was really quick and easy. It took less than 15 mins each time!

Cheers,

Erica