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Does anyone do finnweave?

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bolivian warmi's picture
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I am learning to do a balanced double weave on my backstrap loom because I want to try to reproduce the designs that I have on some pre Columbian textile fragments. I have read that this weave is similar to finnweave. It is no longer practiced here in Bolivia or Peru but I have been told that a small group in Mexico still weave it. Atwater wrote a book called''the Finnweave and the Mexican Double Weave'' which I have had on book search for six months. if anyone has it, please let me know!

Anyway, here is one small motif that I have woven and I would really like to see some examples of finnweave motifs to compare if anyone has any.......................

Laverne

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Leatherweaver's picture
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Yes, I fingerweave. However

Yes, I fingerweave. However I've never really tried to do motifs. I usually do diagonal, chevron, or some made up pattern of my own. Sorry, I'm not much help. I'm also not sure how to post pics. Still learning here.

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bolivian warmi's picture
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Hi and thanks for your reply.

Hi and thanks for your reply. i didn't mean ''FINGER'' weave, I meant ''FINN''weave. just something I have read about but have no idea about! 

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jeannine's picture
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hi laverne,seems you are

hi laverne,seems you are referring to double weave pickup or finweave.it is a scandinavien technic. i have tried it once in weaving class but it was long time ago.It seems to me it is very much the same as doubleweave on our sticks with the difference that there are four shafts,which is quite the same as 3 heddlesticks and a shedstick but on a loom it is easier to open more shed at once for weaving the underlaying layer.I did a quick surch and found a Atwater articleon arizona.edu.

I hope this will help you,

greetings,jeannine

allfiberarts.com/library/gallery/bltan-pickup.htm                                 www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/articles/hc_6_1_2-1.pdf

www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/articles439.html

 

 It can take a few minutes to download.

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bolivian warmi's picture
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Jeannine!!! Thank you so

Jeannine!!! Thank you so much. If this is THE Atwater piece that I have been searching for I will jump through the computer and hug you!!

Laverne

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2and4's picture
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If you can get a copy of the

If you can get a copy of the January/February 1999 issue of Handwoven magazine you'll find a very helpful article by Alison Irwin: "Fun with Finnweave." She describes Finnweave as a variation of doubleweave pick-up that uses pairs rather than single threads in warp and weft and is non-reversible. The article has instructions for a Finnweave sampler. At the end she references a book by Adele Cahlander and Suzanne Baizerman: Double-Woven Treasures from Old Peru. It was published by Dos Tejedoras of St. Paul, Minnesota in 1985. You may be able to get a copy through interlibrary loan. Your sample looks great; happy weaving!

Cindy in NH

 

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bolivian warmi's picture
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Thank you Cindy! the

Thank you Cindy! the Cahlander book is precisely the one I have been reading. I will check out that Handwoven issue. That description you quote sounds exactly like what I am doing.

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Manicgirl's picture
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I've woven Finnweave once, it

I've woven Finnweave once, it used to be quite common here in Sweden a few decades ago. I find a very interesting technique, and I plan to do some more. It's also a technique used in the Viking era in Scandinavian (one of the reasons I find it so interesting).

I wove a design inspired by a 14th C haning, I'll see if I can find my sample and post it here.

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bolivian warmi's picture
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Wonderful! I would love to

Wonderful! I would love to see it.

I have just downloaded an article on it from a link provided by jeannine above and it has beautiful Sacandinavian designs as well as some from colonial American coverlets

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bolivian warmi's picture
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Thanks again Jeannine. I

Thanks again Jeannine. I downloaded two articles from arizona.edu-the Atwater one-she doesn't mention the Mexican weave but she has beautiful Scandanavian motifs there-and another one on the historical background of this weave. Super!

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hansc's picture
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I live in Sweden and

I live in Sweden and finnweave is still woven here. I participate in a project " Finnweave today and in the past". We are ten people and the most wellknown Swedish weather is one of us. She has written the most used book about Finnweave. It is in Swedish only as far as I know . The target for the project is an exhibition which will be opened in The museum of Bohuslan: next year. Bohuslan is the part of Sweden where Finnweave was most spread starting in the 18th century. personally I am not producing so much. I am more interested in the history, how to improve the way to describe a pattern and computer software to support designing and how to pick a pattern.The normal software like the Scandinavian Weavepoint can not handle this. I has a lot of plans like opening www.finnvav.com  and a study group  for finnweave and I am interested to find people who are interested

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bolivian warmi's picture
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Hi. Thank you so much for

Hi. Thank you so much for posting here. I took a look at the web page you provided and, although, I don't understand Swedish, I did understand the word ''galleri'' and was able to enjoy the photos. By zooming in on the black and white tapestry I could see that it indeed resembles the old Peruvian weave that I am sampling. The only person I know who has done a comparison in writing is Mary M Atwater and I am still trying to track down her book-although she compares finnweave to the weaving practiced by the Huichol people in Mexico today.

It seems to be necessary to really cover the cloth with motifs. In the Peruvian examples every space has some kind of motif-a dot, a small square or a cross between the principal motifs. I believe it is because the fabric takes on a kind of ''bloated'' appearance if the two layers are not bound together by the motifs at regular intervals. Would you agree with this?

I love this weave and look forward to learning more about it from examples both here in Latin America and in Scandinavia although my experiments will be limited to the backstrap loom.  I would love to try weaving a piece about 30cm wide which is about the limit of my loom for a heavily patterned piece.

would you tell me the title of the book you mention?

Laverne

 

 

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Virag's picture
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Could you please post any

Could you please post any info you have on it for researching the technique during that time period?

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hansc's picture
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Below You will find five

Below You will find five books all in Swedish. They are all concentrating on finnweave. There a lot of others as well with a chapter for finnweave.

Finnväv som den vävs i Bohuslän         Ingrid Arlenborg Ulla Felzing
Väva finnväv                                   Annelie Machschetes
Finnvävsboken                                 Anita Josephsson
Hemslöjd och folkkonst i Bohuslän        Kerstin Lychou
Selma Johansson                              Kerstin Berg
 

I had forgotten that there was something in www.finnvav.com. It was just testingand i will  take it away. The pattern in the tapestry in black and white is copied from old weavings. It has been made by Stina Wallgren who might be only the person weaving traditional finnweave professionaly just now. It is hanging on a wall  in my house so I can provide you with more detailed photos if you wish.

Hans

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bolivian warmi's picture
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Thanks Hans. I would love to

Thanks Hans. I would love to see more details of the wall hanging. I don't know if you want to post photos here. If not, send me a message (PM) and I will give you my email address.

I am warped up to weave another band with Peruvian motifs-the black and white one above was my width sample-now I want to make the ''real'' one.

Laverne

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bolivian warmi's picture
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There is another weaver here

There is another weaver here who is also very interested in all things from the Viking era-I am sure she will be contacting you.

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jeannine's picture
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you are right about the"

you are right about the" bloated" appearance .if you weave only one motif, lets say in the middle you will have 2 things possibel.1 the two layers are separate at the selvedge or 2 the selvedges are connected then you have a tubularweave which can bloat ; many motifs makes  the two layers flat and connected.I think i have a sampler .it is woven on a loom but basicly it is the same.It was the research for double weave that brough me to backstrapweaving and it still seems so interesting to me, but i got distracted by saori weaving and put the finnweave away for later and now it seems to be back. i'll have to dig up the sampler ,must go now

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bolivian warmi's picture
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thanks jeannine. I am excited

thanks jeannine. I am excited to find several people also interested in this and who have actually woven it!. I hope you find your sample. :-)

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kerstinfroberg's picture
Joined: 06/08/2009
Laverne, have you checked

Laverne, have you checked handweaving.net? There are books on finnweave, but also a couple om peruvian double weave. A better search may yield a lot more...

Kerstin

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bolivian warmi's picture
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Hi Kerstin, I just went to

Hi Kerstin,

I just went to handweaving.net-my first time to this site-and downloaded three articles-one on Peruvian double weave and two others on Scandinavian. Thank you so much. I am sure as you said that with a better search I will find even more but I have plenty to look at this for this weekend. what a great site.

Thank you so much.

Laverne

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jeannine's picture
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hello laverne, I found the

hello laverne, I found the sample .It is not a big thing; the teacher setup the warp. we each could weave our little piece.I had not much inspiration that day so I took my housnumber as pattern for the pickup and some little rectangels

.so from bottom to top you can see: separate layers(as far as the white goes),double wide(folded ),tubular( darker blue) ,changing layers gives open tubes(with the bamboo ), pickup pattern (fold edge to show separate layers) ,rectangular pickup pattern shows how every thing is now connected.

that is what we could do in class the rest was left to explore by our selfs and didn't happened yet.

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bolivian warmi's picture
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Wow, that's really

Wow, that's really interesting. I am weaving a band-it's only 4cm wide  and I have been interlocking the wefts at the edges so the layers are bonded together there. Actually I have been avoiding doing plain color as that is where my balanced weave goes very ''unbalanced''! I find that when I am doing a motif all the warps and wefts fall nicely into place. Is it the traditional way to have the two layers separate like that? Thanks for that, Jeannine. Here is where I am at so far.............

      

Laverne

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francorios's picture
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Hi Leatherweaver,   I checked
Hi Leatherweaver,
 
I checked out the photos on your projects page. Were the bags made by fingerweaving? The patterns look very good. I've tried fingerweaving, somewhat like a knitting loom, but my stuff comes out looking lumpy and not at all organized.
 
I like the wrapped handles. And the strap on your avatar photo, how did you make that?
 
Have a good day!

Franco Rios

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jeannine's picture
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we were just learning the

we were just learning the pickup .I think the layers are bonded together in traditional weaves.the band you make looks beautiful . I like the motif .

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cacolorado's picture
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The magazine "Prairie Wool

The magazine "Prairie Wool Companion" Issue 4 / 1982 I believe has a good bit on finnweave.  I was just looking at that last evening as a matter of fact but I don't have it here with me as I type.  I can send you the info later with better specifics if you don't already have it. (PM me if you like)

EDIT:

I found this on EBay ==>   http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-PRAIRIE-WOOL-COMPANION-4-82-FinnWeave-Finnknit_W...

table of contents listing for the issue I mentioned above:

C O N T E N T S   5 Letters from the Companions 7 Yarn Resource Page: A Guide to Specified Yams - and How to Make Substitutions 9 Moneymakers for Weavers by Romy Kelvin - Dollars by the yard 10 Camera Strap in Double-Weave Pick-up - by Suzanne Gaston-Vaute 14 Finn-weave in Norway: Yesterday and Today - by Lila Nelson 18 Fantastic Finn-weave, Part I by A. David Xenakis The first in a three-part series 34 The Paired‚-Thread Firmweave Projects: Five Placemats Based on a Chinese Lattice Design Zebra, I Love You! Ben's Chessboard The Gaza Dress Medusa, the Gorgeous Gorgon 46 Doubleweave: Some Ideas for Conserving Yarn - by Adele Cahlander 49 Other Finishes for Finn-weave 50 Designing for Finn-weave 53 Doublewide: A Popular Technique of the 19th Century Coverlet Weaver - by Ken Colwell 59 A ]acket in Horizontal Cord Weave - by Nadine Duncan 60 Essay: The Incredible, Flexible Rigid Hedge Loom - by Bette Rotert 61 Summer and Winter Revisited,'Part l: Doublewide with Two Rigid Heddles 62 Summer and Winter Revisited, Part II: I. On Designing with Krokbragd, Krokbragd Mug Rugs by Linda Lyon II. Krokbragd on One, A Woolen Runner Project by Betty Davenport Ill. Selvedges for Krokbragd and Other Weft¬ Face Cloths by Catherine lngebretsen 70 All Around - Year Around Shawl - by Connie Herring 72 Quadruple Cloth, A Gauze Application - by Larry E. Edman 74 Quadruple Cloth on the Rigid I-Meddle Loom, Editors Note by A. David Xenakis Are you serious? 76 Finnknit: A Rug for Your Favorite Mug and TwoZebras to Give You a Hug - by Elaine D. Rowley 80 The Egrnont Sweater - by Elizabeth Zimmermann 83 The Woven and Knitted Segment Sweater - by Romy Klessen 87 Zebra Tops, Crocheted and Knitted - by Carla Fauske, R. Klessen and E. Rowley 92 Latvian Wedding Mittens - by Lizabeth Upitis 96 Review of Equipment - by A, David Xenakis 98 Four Times a Year! Wheel 99 Next Issue and Beyond

Catherine

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cacolorado's picture
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Looks like it could be in

Looks like it could be in Issues 2, 3, and 4 of PWC perhaps since I found this on a different cached webpage.  Anyway, it looks like there was a three part series of articles. 

The Prairie Wool Companion, Issue 2 - April 1982

Projects and Features in this issue are:

  • Yarn Resource Guide: A Guide to Specified Yarns and How to Make Substitutions
  • Moneymakers for Weavers
  • Camera Strap in Double Weave Pick-up
  • Finnweave in Norway: Yesterday and Today
  • Fantastic Finnweave, Part I
  • The Paired Thread Finnweave
    • Five Placemats Based on a Chinese Lattice Design
    • Zebra, I Love You!
    • Ben's Chessboard
    • The Gaza Dress
    • Medusa, The Gorgeous Gorgon
  • Doubleweave: Some ideas on Conserving Yarn
  • Other Finishes for Finnweave
  • Designing for Finnweave
  • Doubleweave: A Popular Technique of the 19th Century Coverlet Weaver
  • A Jacket in Horizontal Cord Weave
  • Essay: The Incredible, Flexible Rigid Heddle Loom
  • Summer and Winter Revisited, Part I: Doubleweave with Two Rigid Heddles
  • Summer and Winter Revisited, Part II:
    1. On Designing with Krokbagd - Krokbagd Mug Rugs
    2. Krokbagd on One, A Woolen Runner Project
    3. Selvedges for Krokbagd and Others with Weft-faced Cloths
  • All Around -- Year Around Shawl
  • Quadruple Cloth on the Rigid Heddle Loom
  • Finnknit: A Rug for Your Favorite Mug and Two Zebras to Give You a Hug
  • The Egmont Sweater
  • The Woven and Knitted Egmont Sweater
  • Zebra Tops, Crocheted and Knitted
  • Latvian Wedding Mittens

 

The Prairie Wool Companion, Issue 4 - January 1983

Projects and Features in this issue are:

  • Fantastic Finnweave, Part III
  • Double-woven Treasures From Old Peru
  • Turned Pebble Weave
  • Designing Inkle Bands
  • Three Color Basket in Single Crochet
  • Peruvian Mittens
  • Llama & Peruvian Hats
  • Lots of Leg Warmers
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bolivian warmi's picture
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Thank you so much. I have

Thank you so much. I have been hearing a lot about this magazine on different threads here at Weavolution. I hope I can manage to get this issue. I see it also has an article by Adele Cahlander who has written quite a few of the books on South American weaving that I have.

Laverne

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bolivian warmi's picture
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Thank you Cindy again. I got

Thank you Cindy again. I got hold of that Handwoven! It's a great article.

Laverne

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bolivian warmi's picture
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Hi Hans, I think I ''might''

Hi Hans,

I think I ''might'' buy ONE of these books. Which one would you recommend over the others?

Laverne

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Manicgirl's picture
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Here at last is a picture of

Here at last is a picture of my finnweave:

I haven't finished it yet (eventhough it was years since I wove it! ) and I don't have the notes at hand right now, so I'm not sure about the set etc. The blue is a  2-pl woolyarn, and the other warp is linen. It measures about 30 cm wide, and maybe 80 cm long in total.

I really enjoyed weaving it, and I hope to do more in the future.

And I realise I was wrong about the dating on this one, it's inspired by the Grödinge find, which dates to early 15th c. There's a picture of the original here.

As for the Vikingera find, (12th C from Överhogdal - 12th C is stretching it a bit, the viking era lasted to around 11 C in Sweden, but it is still interesting) - this find seems very hard to find on the internet. There are lots of articles about the other hanings from Överhogdal, but these are woven soumak. Extremely interesting too, but not finnväv. If I manage to find a picture or if I can scan it from a book, I'll do that.

 

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bolivian warmi's picture
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This is beautiful! Do you

This is beautiful! Do you feel inspired to pick it up again? I hope so! Can you? It looks like it has been cut ff the loom. Do you intend doing all three motifs? I just love these designs. I have been looking at a lot of old articles since first posting my question here and am really in love with the old Scandinavian designs.

One question....do you join the two layers tgether at the edges by interlinking the wefts at the edges or leave the two layers separate as I don't seem to see the little weft bumps that form when you interlink the wefts-your edges look very clean and smooth. It's the one thing I don't like about the piece I am weaving ath the moment-those little weft ''bumps''. I have white bumps on my brown upper layer.

Laverne

 

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Loominaria's picture
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 I don't do finnweave, but

 I don't do finnweave, but while browsing somewhere else, I noticed someone who does. Scroll down to the bottom of this page for her name and e-mail:

fiberarts.org/design/articles/rigidheddle2.html

Kurt

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bolivian warmi's picture
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Thank you Kurt! I haven't

Thank you Kurt! I haven't seen you around for a couple of days. Busy weaving?

Laverne

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Loom-controlled designs in

Loom-controlled designs in Finnweave are known in current American weaving magazines as "deflected double weave".  A good friend of mine has woven pictures in pick-up Finnweave and taught the method, then started using weaving software and a 12-shaft table loom, and now has a 32-shaft computer-assisted Megado by Louet. She wrote an article for the Complex Weavers Journal about using FiberworksPCW software to design for deflected double weave and she gave a wonderful seminar for CW in 2002. Her name is Marguerite Gingras. She also does deflected triple weave and she weaves images on her computer-assisted multishaft loom.   Bonnie

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bolivian warmi's picture
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My goodness-that does sound

My goodness-that does sound complex.I am just weaving a small finnweave band on my litle old backstrap loom. Hans, who posted here before, is in a finnweave study group and I am sure that he will be interested in that software for designing that you mention. I will google your friend and see if perhaps she has a site with her work. Thanks Bonnie.

Laverne

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bolivian warmi's picture
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Actually, I have another

Actually, I have another question.........is it normal to use different yarns for the two layers? Does this make the motif stand out more?

Laverne

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kerstinfroberg's picture
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At least it is traditional

At least it is traditional (here in Sweden) - one layer wool, the other linen. (Or possibly cotton.) I once read an article saying that the string used for tying sausages was ideal for the non-wool layer... (Sorry, can't remember where)

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bolivian warmi's picture
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Thank you Kerstin. I am more

Thank you Kerstin. I am more likely to find sausage tying string here than linen!

For the next piece that I do, I will have a border at the edges as manicgirl has above-white motif on black background bordered by white. That way these weft bumps that I am complaining about will just blend in as they will be the same color as the edge.

Laverne

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Hi Laverne, I am just sending

Hi Laverne,

I am just sending this message to see if I get the error message you have been experiencing.  Also, I want to show our developers that when there are more than 1 page of responses in a thread, the "1 new" does not take you to the new message.

Claudia

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Hello! I wove the pice with

Hello!

I wove the pice with separate layers at the edges. It was a way for me to see that I was weaving in the right shed, and it also makes nice edges, I think.

As for the yarn choice, the original piece was in wool and linen I think, and I see that Kerstin already answered you on that one. I don't know much about traditional finnweave at all, having only woven this one piece. I do hope, however, to try it out more. It's seems a wonderful and very versatile technique.

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