Welcome Guest. Login/Register.
12 weavers online | help

half-and-half twill

kerstinfroberg's picture

I have plagued Laura with this several times before, but now I have more ppl to plague...

In Sweden, a half-and-half twill (2/2, 3/3, 4/4 but NOT 3/3/1/1) is called a Batavia. Batavia has (obviously) to have an even number of shafts. If I say "a 16 shaft Batavia" to a Swe weaver, s/he would know I meant an 8/8 twill.

Can Batavia be used for this kind of simple structure in (pick your language)?

up
0 users have voted.
Ellen's picture
Offline
Joined: 08/12/2009
I don't think so in Danish

At least I have not come across the term. We would call that "ligesidet" kipper (for English speakers: litt. "equal-sided" twill). I have only met the term "balanced" in English but look forward to others' replies.

up
0 users have voted.
Joined: 06/08/2009
equal-sided

to me means as many ups as downs - ie 3/3/1/1 is equal-sided (total of 4 up/4 down), while the Batavia has to be exactly half/half.

I don't understand "balanced" - or, rather, I have always thought about "balanced" as to mean equal # of warps and wefts... but who knows ;-)?

up
0 users have voted.
LauraFry's picture
Online
Joined: 05/25/2009
even/balanced twills

Hej Kerstin - dragged out my Irene Emory.  No reference to batavia, sorry.  

However, she says 'balanced' is equal number of warp/weft ends.

'Even' twills have equal spans of floats in warp and weft, making both sides of the cloth identical.  But not specifically half and half as in batavia, although I assume that definition would include half and half.

She also says that unless otherwise specified, 'twill' refers to a continuous twill line which can also be named "plain, regular, simple, biased, or diagonal".

None of which gets us any closer to 'batavia'.  :}

cheers,

Laura

up
0 users have voted.
Joined: 05/29/2009
Just checked my European

Just checked my European books - only the Swedish ones have reference to Batavia. The JoSmits International Weaving Dictionary has no entry for the word, and the German drafting sections refer only to balanced or even twills.

up
0 users have voted.
endorph's picture
Online
Joined: 09/12/2011
Batavia weave

is mentioned / defined in Forensic examination of Fibres - as even-sided twill where warp and weft are balance on the face of the fabric as distinguished to warp or weft faced twills. But no mention as to why it is called Batavia. It is also mentioned in the article "A Suit of Clothes" in Harper's New Monthly Magazine vol. 80 April 1890 but again no mention as to why it is called Batavia weave. Hmmmmm. . .

up
0 users have voted.
LauraFry's picture
Online
Joined: 05/25/2009
Yikes!  I was going to buy

Yikes!  I was going to buy the book until I saw the price!  think I'll request it in on inter-library loan.....  :}  So are you involved in forensics that you know about this book????

cheers,

Laura

up
0 users have voted.
endorph's picture
Online
Joined: 09/12/2011
I am sort of involved in

I am sort of involved in forensics - through my work in a law enforcement museum. I wish I could afford the book for myself but. . . Yikes is right! Good thing there are libraries.

up
0 users have voted.
LauraFry's picture
Online
Joined: 05/25/2009
I put in the request tonight

I put in the request tonight - hope it doesn't arrive while I'm out of town in November....  :}  Sounds like a fascinating job.

cheers,

Laura

up
0 users have voted.
LauraFry's picture
Online
Joined: 05/25/2009
Looks like I might be able to

Looks like I might be able to get a copy via inter-library loan.  :)

cheers,

Laura

up
0 users have voted.
Bonnie Inouye's picture
Online
Joined: 06/15/2009
Batavia

Kerstin, this is interesting, thank you! Is "batavia" used only for a twill woven with such a tie-up? I use this kind of tie-up for other structures, particularly when threading sequence is parallel. I refer to these tie-ups as "half/half" and find them quite nice for use on table looms.

When the tie-up is half/half, it is also lifting opposites.

To me, a balanced tie-up is one that lifts half of the total number of shafts. For twills I often prefer an unbalanced tie-up because the cloth shows more weft on one face and more warp on the other face.

Is batavia used to describe something like "corkscrew"- that is another strange name.

Bonnie

up
0 users have voted.
Joined: 06/08/2009
a batavia tie-up

or a batavia weave sructure?

Bonnie - I'm not sure... If someone told me s/he had a jacket in a (say) 8shaft batavia, I would assume a twill. However, I could refer to a batavia tie-up, regardless of structure.

But: either I don't understand "on opposites" or - no, it isn't an "opposite" tie-up (left). Of course it is possible to shuffle around things to get the same 4/4 twill, but all the same I wouldn't call the right-hand tie-up a batavia.

4-4-batavia 4-4-shuffled

 

up
0 users have voted.
lkautio's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/11/2009
Batavia

Would you consider a 1/1/2/1/1/2 8S twill a Batavia twill?  It too is balanced and will weave on opposites, which the 3/3/1/1 doesn't do.

Laurie Autio

up
0 users have voted.
Joined: 06/08/2009
No - for me a Batavia is

No - for me a Batavia is *only* consecutive half up/consecutive half down. Thus: 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5.... (and I don't think they *do* weave on opposites - not my understanding of opposites, anyway). Therefore, in my previous post, *only* the left-hand tie-up is a Batavia tie-up. (The resulting structure from the right-hand draft is another matter - but if I got that structure to analyze, my first result would be the left-hand draft... I would shuffle it around only if I *had* to - if I only had dräll pulleys for my loom, for instance.)

up
0 users have voted.
Bonnie Inouye's picture
Online
Joined: 06/15/2009
Batavia

It would be interesting to know the origin of this name, Batavia.

Kerstin, my note was not clear enough, sorry. I use a half/half tie-up sometimes when my loom is threaded "on opposites" or in an "extended parallel" threading. For example, warp rep may be woven this way.

up
0 users have voted.
Bonnie Inouye's picture
Online
Joined: 06/15/2009
Batavia

It would be interesting to know the origin of this name, Batavia.

Kerstin, my note was not clear enough, sorry. I use a half/half tie-up sometimes when my loom is threaded "on opposites" or in an "extended parallel" threading. For example, warp rep may be woven this way.

up
0 users have voted.

Fatal error: Call to undefined function mb_strlen() in /home/weavol5/public_html/sites/all/modules/boost/boost.module on line 4218