Balanced weaves on the backstrap loom

Following the WAL in the rigid heddle group I decided to try log cabin on my backstrap loom. I have just started and here are the first couple of blocks. I will post more pictures as I progress. Trying to get the right balance has been the biggest challenge-I didn't calculate-just eyeballed it. Seems to be going okay so far.

Laverne

Cotton Towel, balanced weave on backstrap loom

*copied from my blog http://francosfiberadventure.blogspot.com/2009/07/backstrap-weaving-in-progress.html

Here I am on the second try. I saw pictures of people sitting on the floor with their backstrap looms and so I though I would try it. It's not bad. I need more cushion for sitting. Also need a cushion under my knees to put a little bit of flex in my knees to keep from hyper extending the knee joint. Otherwise it's not bad. I had joked about my legs being too short for my feet to hold the far end of the loom, 30 inch long trouser leg, and it turns out it is not a problem when weaving a 24 inch towel!

Here is my view of the weaving. The loom bar at the bottom is tied to my belt strap. Then it is tied to the lashed edge cord dowel. Then we have about 2 inches of black/white border to go with the two inches of black/white warp border. There is a pickup stick that is used to hold open the shed for the stick shuttle to go through. There is the string heddle on a stick, with a safety string. Behind that is another flat stick for making a shed. Then a round shed stick, with a safety string. Then the far edge cord dowel lashed to the far loom bar. And finally, a loop of rope to go over my shoes.

Did I mention that safety strings save time?

Have a good day!

Here is the log cabin off the loom. Just a short piece. I didn't want to invest much yarn in it because I wasn't sure if it would work out so I guess it is destined to be cut up and sewn into something. It was a fun project.

The yarn I used is crochet cotton 24WPI. I warped it on a warping board with 4 stakes and was able to separate the colors for the sheds on the warping board itself.

Once the warp was on the loom bars, I installed the continuous string heddles and the shed stick. I put a steel needle through the end loops at both ends of the warp and lashed the needles to the loom bars. I then  wound a doubled strand of the warp yarn around the loom bar and between each warp pair to space the warps for the balanced weave.

I then formed muliple crosses behind the shed stick and placed sticks in them. This really helped to keep the warps spread and maintain the balance. The warps were not perfectly evenly spread the whole way across and you can see that some blocks are bigger than others.

Laverne

That looks great, and you did a good job on the edges!

I've tried using the extra dowels placed further up the warp, and regardless of whether you are doing a warp-faced fabric, or a balanced weave, it helps keep the width more uniform, and  I suspect it evens out the warp tension a fair bit as well, particularly if you get a loose warp on a wide piece.

Hello everybody,

who can tell me what does "balanced weave" mean ?

Hi Bibi,

A balanced weave is where warp threads (vertical) and weft threads (horizontal) are spread equally in the woven cloth, sometimes called plainweave. Warp and weft threads are visible.

Backstrap is normally warpfaced, where the warp threads are pulled together tightly, covering the weft so only the warp shows.

Tapestry is weft faced where the warp threads are covered, only the weft shows.

I hope that answers the question.

Have a good day!

Ok thanks Francorios, I understand what it is... but now, I can't imagine how you do it !! specially on a backstrap !

Hi bibi,

You have been weaving warp faced bands where you have pushed all your warps close together-no spaces between them so you can't see the weft at all.

In a balanced weave you have to spread the warps before you start weaving so that the weft will be viisible-as Franco has explained above. We all have different tricks to spread the warps and keep them spread as we weave.

Probably the easiest way to achieve a balanced weave is to use rigid heddle on your backstrap loom.

If you are not using a rigid heddle, here are some suggestions........

The picture below is not very good but it shows how I have used the black yarn wrapped around the loom bar between each warp pair to space the warps a certain regular distance. This I did at both ends of the warp.

The next picture shows the log cabin in progress. The problem is that while you are weaving it is difficult to maintain this even spacing and the warps want to move in close to each other. So, in the photo below, I have placed a number of extra sticks in the warp locked into place in multiple crosses and this helped to lock the warps in their positions. This looks very clumsy!-shorter sticks would have been less cumbersome but the imporatnt thing is that it worked.

You also need to adjust the way in which you lay in the weft in a balanced weave.

Laverne

If you can establish the war[ spacing before you start, whether you use twining cords or lashing or leash sticks, you can weave warpfaced, weft face or plainweave, just keep your spacing as you weave. With the backstrap loom the weaver has total control of the piece, or total lack of control in some pieces.

Check the example below copied from my blog:

http://francosfiberadventure.blogspot.com/2009/09/acrylicchenille-scarf-on-backstrap-loom.html

Here is the weaving in progress. At first I beat the chenille firmly and found the scarf was as stiff as a carpet. So I loosened up the the weave by pulling it back up the warp and putting it back down the warp with a comb. Then I started weaving again from that point and did not beat it so hard. Much better feel. Kind of a balancing act between beating for a firm weave and having a loose weave/drape by placing the weft, not beating.

By the way, that is a wooden footstool under my leg. I am sitting on our couch which sits kind of low. I have a pillow behind to help support my back. The television is to my right. The remote control is on my left.

Have a good day!

Thanks a lot Laverne !

That is total clear now ! I shall have a try on this technique one of these days...

You can also use weft twining and chaining or other warp-wrapping to maintain (or vary) the warp spacing.

Kurt

Hello Kurt,

Is it really the same ? in what you explain, what I understand is that you won't see the warp at all, whereas in what Franco and Laverne explain, what I understand is that you see alternatively warp then weft...

Or may be I didn't understand anythin at all ??

Michelle

I didn't explain it well. I would insert a pick of some wrapped warp technique at widely spaced intervals and use plain weave throughout the rest.  The occasional pass of wrapped warp will hide the warp completely on both sides, but the plain weave will be (somewhat) balanced.

I don't think I've ever achieved a perfectly balanced plain weave on any loom. I usually have at least a slight warp emphasis. But that doesn't matter to anyone but weavers who are studying technique.

If I'm still not explaining this well, go with what Franco and Laverne are suggesting. Or even if I've been more clear this time, it could be better to follow their suggestions anyway.  :-)

Kurt

Hello Kurt

well, I don't understand what you're trying to explain but I thank you for the try ... as a very beginner in weaving I think it's not very important at the moment, BUT I want to thank you a lot for this link     http://www.marlamallett.com/           because it's so so so interesting !      thanks a lot and have a nice week-end !

Michelle

Experimenting with a mini pinwheel design that Virag told me about and with cotton that she sent me-12 wpi unmercerized. The cotton is probably Sugar and Cream by Lily but we are not sure. I have found in other projects that my last 3 or 4 edge warps tend to want to close up into warp faced so here is the result of over compensation............

You can see the two outer pinwheels are very stretched. This cotton is lovely!

This is another one I started yesterday in 24wpi yarn. I wanted the multi colored pinwheels to ''jump out'' against a white background but it hasn't turned out that way so this one has been put aside for the time being.

Laverne

The pinwheels look great. Those outer wheels will probably tighten up and look more balanced after the wash.

Funny how the colored pinwheels did not jump out. I would have thought the same think.

Have a good day!

This is really nice, Laverne! Can you share how to make the pattern? Is it just a color-and-weave effect?

Yes, it is just a color-and-weave effect. Virag gave me a link to this video.....

www.youtube.com/user/rigidheddleweaving#p/u/6/Qt3RdS3XkTY

It is just two colors alternated-on the RH it would be black through a hole and slot, then white through a hole and slot etc...Two passes of weft in each color-two black, then two white. In the video she lays the weft in straight across and also seems to push quite hard with the heddle. That was not working for me. I have to lay the weft in at an angle and push the weft in very gently. Also in the video, her weaving was a fair bit narrower than the width of the warp going through the her RH.

I'll probably finish it tomorrow. Waiting to see what happens when I wash it.

I think I am going to try another kind of twill next.

Laverne

Thanks for sharing!

The way she pulls her weft in and through is how I do it when weaving narrow warp-faced bands, but not when weaving balanced textiles.

Exactly! Yet it seems to work for her...........shrug!

Well I am playing with a new toy.

I swapped one of my Bolivian drop spindles with a Weavolution member. She was going to send me some cotton sliver. The package arrived and what did I find inside?- two rigid heddles!! (along with the cotton sliver AND some other goodies!!)

I already have two 80cm/32'' 12.5dpi rigid heddles and I was considering cutting one down to use on my backstrap loom and then along came these two surprises- a 7.5 and 10 dpi heddle 12''/ 30 cm size-PERFECT!!

So I warped up with doubled 8/2 cotton. Claudia had suggested this in the towel WAL in the rigid heddle group-(you see, I lurk and take note of all the good info) Also there is a placemat project in the Davenport book with doubled 8/2 using the 10dpi heddle so this is what I am doing.

I am NOT about to abandon my beloved string heddles for the rigid heddle but I have always wanted to try this out. I am not a big fan of the cutting and threading but now that it is set up, I am enjoying the weaving.

Laverne

How easy is it to manipulate the RH in one hand and the shuttle in the other?

This is the one big criticism ( from multi-shaft weavers?) of using a rigid heddle on a backstrap loom, whether its the smaller wooden ones for bands, or the wider plastic ones. 10dpi is not too fine a warp so the warp threads should not stick, but at a finer sett, would there be problems? I presume you hold the shuttle in one hand, the heddle in the other, and when you throw the shuttle you have to quickly swap hands so you can catch the shuttle as it comes through the other side of the weaving.

How much slower is this compared to your regular method of weaving plain weave? are you also using a sword to hold the shed open?

It doesn't look as if you have had any problems with tension as the selvedges look very good.

I suspect that while this is do-able, its quicker and easier to use the string heddles because they are lighter, but its an interesting and valuable experiment and should give confidence to anyone worried about using string heddles.

I have a pretty long shuttle and I don't have the habit of throwing it-probably because I backstrap weave all the time and don't use other looms. So I open the shed with one hand pass the shuttle as far as I can with the other, swap hands and pull the weft through. I lay it in at its angle with the shed closed. Of the course the heddle ''down'' position is more convenient as the weight of the heddle tends to have that shed half open on its own. I don't find the heddle too heavy.

The downside-cutting warps, threading, re tensioning and tying. Not stuff you have to bother with when using string heddles.

The upside-no fiddling about to get the weave to stay balanced and a good even and constant distribution of the warps. I haven't felt the need to measure and check the width yet or make adjustments to how I am laying in the weft.

I am not using a sword. I think I will try using one and see what difference it makes.

Well I finished this piece on my backstrap loom with the rigid heddle. I said above that I didn't feel the need to measure-well that was wrong-I should have as I lost 6mm somewhere along the way! Now to wash it.

I was curious to try this out as most of the ready made backstrap kits that I have seen come with a rigid heddle and, as I have tried some balanced weaves without one, I wanted to compare.

Laverne 

Hei Laverne,

well done!  

You didn`t use a temple , did you? Your edges are good and the fabric didn`t become smaller. What yarn did you take?

 My spinning project is going on. Last weekend it was  surprising mild and I made some dying with Elderberry- plant color I had. Becomes Blue -purple . Now I want to do another dying with cochenille, than I have enogh colors for the next band. in the meantime I did some spinning for a new scarf with Merino/ silk. and worked on the snake band. I mostly do varietys,  and rotate between family ,handycraft and work . so every project needs long time- but thats my stile.

 Greetings from cold Germany with thick socks and scarf weather- maybe we get snow next week. 

Kristina

It looks good! As long as the fabric is nice and firm and not sleazy I wouldn't worry about it! 6mm is neither here nor there! And if its consistent.................thats better than most of us, hehe!

I've wondered about the Backstrap kits with the rigid heddle, but its probably a case of if its all you know, you learn to use it. Its really only when you have something to compare it with that you realise how easy or awkward it is to use.  I wonder how many children keep on using a backstrap, or graduate to a little frame or rigid heddle loom. Perhaps this is why some cultures have developed tripods to use with their looms?

I am having fun with my rigid heddle again. The red piece I made came out SO well after washing that I wanted to have another go and not lose any width this time. So I am weaving with the same 8/2 cotton doubled in the 10dpi heddle and am being a little more adventurous in the pattern(!)

Laverne

Now that looks like fun!

You mean you have the 8/2 with two threads in each hole/slot? What is the WPI on the 8/2 thread?

Have a good day!

Yep-2 threads in each hole and slot and doubled weft as well. This 8/2 is crochet thread and wraps 35 times to the inch.

How pretty, Laverne!! I really like your color choices here. Have you tried using your sword to hold your shed yet? I am doing that with my current project (20 epi with 2 10-dent heddles) because I can't beat hard enough with doubled heddles. The sword is perfect!

The sword got tossed after a couple of rows! I really didn't need it. The only other implement I use is a pointed stick which I use to bubble the weft. Is this current project your husband's scarf? I am curious about the ''window pane'' you mentioned.

Indeed it is :) I decided against the windowpane...I like it, but I don't think he would. I'm just weaving plain weave. Sort of wish I had gone with twill, but too late now. Oh well. It's sort of boring to weave, being plain black tabby. No color or texture to hold my interest.

Do you have a copy of Textures and Patterns for the Rigid Heddle Loom? That's where the directions for the windowpane came from...don't remember if there was a picture in there or not.

As I am playing with my rigid heddle on my backstrap loom I am reminded of the family of cotton saddlebag weavers I stayed with in coastal Ecuador and the rigid heddle that 86 year-old Luz had fashioned. They use this heddle sideways to weave a narrow band which reinforces the edges of the bags. The band is sewn to the edge using the weft thread as it is woven. Luz put a  base on the heddle so that it would stand on its own and could be moved from side to side to change sheds. The warp here is stretched between a screw driver which is wedged between the floorboards and a beam that runs along the wall of the room.

Here is a closer look at the home made rigid heddle-pretty cool.

Laverne

huh..... that sure is interesting.. it is possible to use card-weaving (tablet weaving) cards in the exact same fashion..

Normally one would warp up 4 cards (8 threads) and use the hemming thread as weft.

Each time you take a stich on the edge of the cloth, you turn the cards and put in another shot of weft.

The  vikings and similar ancient people used that technige on their clothing for the edges of doublets and the lace up- area on the back/frount of dresses and corsets. The problem is that most archeologist are not textile people so.. they can only generalize what a textile is... some tablet weaving can look like knitting, or plainweave if you are not looking closely. (and knowing what you are looking at)

Well I am very pleased with the way my ''towelly'' projects are turning out using a rigid heddle on the backstrap loom. Here is the second one after washing-didn't lose width this time but still have to work on even beat. I think it is a great way to weave these things for those who don't have the means to buy a loom (as long as you don't mind being strapped into a backstrap loom)-just buy a rigid heddle for under $30. Yes you CAN weave balanced weaves without a rigid heddle on the loom but there is a lot of fiddling around to keep the edges straight and the weave balanced. There is no fuss at all when using the heddle-just measure at regular intervals to check width..

This is 8/2 cotton doubled in the 10dpi heddle.

Those look great! Just goes to show, its the weaver, and not the loom!

Those towels came out really well.

Can you tell us how you did the finish?

Did you hem stitch? Did you twist the fringe?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Have a good day!

Hi Franco,

Glad you like it. I hemstiched (learned this from the video link you once provided) and the fringe has just been left ''wild''. I am planning on cutting it a lot shorter. The fringe survived the first wash-handwash in hot-ish water. Do you think it's okay to leave it ''wild''like this?

okay, I just have to ask this...with all the knowledge about using string doupes and sticks to change sheds have you guys experimenting with multishaft reeds thought about dropping the rigid heddle beater and going to a regular loom reed using your multitude of ways to change sheds? You'd get rid of the pesky hole/slot thought process.  I  thought I'd put the question out there...and yes I have done as I've asked and it works well, you just need to deal with the weight of the reed...Deb 

You washed it?!! Very good! You are making progress.

If this towel will go anywhere near the stove, trim it or braid it.  My towels that have wild fringe have caught fire more than once. You could call them self trimming, but that's dangerous. The fluffy fiber is flammable. Fiber that is spun doesn't catch fire as easily and will usually smolder out once the heat is removed. This only applies to cotton fiber. Synthetics are a different story.

If these will be used as table runners or mats, you could leave the fringe wild.

Have a good day!

Could you post a picture of the reed you used? Are the teeth steel round wire or flat wire or some other material?

My favorite thing about backstrap weaving is the weaver can make up all the pieces for their loom.

I've seen pictures of backstrap weavers sitting in a big frame and using multiple shafts and reeds. I'd like to know how they make reeds for their looms. That would be a handy thing to know for producing balanced weaves on the backstrap loom.

Have a good day!

Franco Rios

Would  try it Deb if I had one. For the next spindle swap I do I'll ask for a reed! I imagine the weight would be an issue.

Laverne

It will be placed safely on the table. wild fringe it is then!

Laverne

look around for one of the Thai textile hangers, they are in import/export stores, not sure what you have down there, that is what I used at first, here is a photo of one 

don't pay attention to the vender name on there, I just googled a photo to show you, they come in different sizes and you can use the whole hanger if it fits in your rigid heddle frame (important dimension to know) OR pull out the reed and suspend it in your warp if you are doing backstrap...

I've documented and photographed the process in Laos , I do lecture about it but haven't yet put my own jig togeather due to a major move in our life.

I consider one of the best written and photographed books is Spiritual Fabric, it would speak to your desire of making all the pieces of the loom as they have documented so much, it is available in Japanese and English.  I actually bought the Japanese version first just for the photos and illustrations.  Ways to hand make reeds are documented in there.  Here is the info, it is available but you have to hunt it down!  Deb

Spiritual Fabric: 20 years of field research among the Miao of Guizhou, China 

Description: step by step instructions and illustrations on growing, harvesting, making indigo dye; weaving; plaiting; etc; from off-loom to backstrap loom variations. 

Authors: Dr. Sadae Torimaru 

English editors: Yoshiko I Wada, Nancy A Salumbides

Published by Nishinippon Newspaper Co. (2006)

144 pages. Color illustrations. English & Chinese text. 

9.5 x 9.5 x 0.5 inches (2lb)

ISBN 4-8167-0691-7

I am back after having pondered this over lunch.

what I am thinking about..........How much does one of these cost compared to a rigid heddle?

I still have to cut warps and thread through slots-okay only slots rather than holes AND slots

On top of that I need to install continuous string heddles

Do these weigh more or less that a rigid heddle? I would not consider using a metal reed.

I like the natural look of it and all but for just plain balanced weaves I think i would stick to the rigid heddle on my bakstrap loom. I t would be great for more complex weaves though with multipe string heddles. Hmmmmmmmm.........

Okay  I want one!! :-)  Putting on shopping list for visit to US.

Laverne    Thanks Deb!

 yep, those are the options when you consider some of the other weaves against changing equipment....

of course you make a master set of continuos string heddles with a dummy warp and tie your current warp to the dummy warp and pull them thru to use them....

your devil's advocate!

Deb

off to the dyepot to pull some mesquite dyed wool and to figure out a threading error on the loom, happy thinking!  

This is something I've been considering, Deb. I really, really like finer threads and sometimes I feel 24 epi with 2 rigid heddles to be too limiting. I really want to weave yardage for sewing, and bulky clothing is not my style :)  Thanks for sharing that it works!!

Curious...if you have a master set of string heddles on a dummy warp, do you have it threaded as for a straight twill? Would that maximize the patterns you could weave? I like this idea. I like string heddles, but I really dislike tying them. I've debated on buying texsolve heddles, putting them on a stick, and calling it good :)

 well, in the colonial times in the US the weavers keep different dummy warps and heddles for each pattern and they are put into the loom as needed and tied on to the warp, current weavers still use this...Bonnie I. has lectured about it.

in Southeast Asia, a beater and a set of heddles are kept in the same way, each specific to a pattern, they are brought out and tied onto the warp as needed

one would just need to decide what your current exploration is and do your string heddles in that pattern, new journey?  Create another set of string heddles and keep them in a marked set, switch back and forth by tying onto the old warp as needed

or

rethread your heddles for a new pattern.

oops, just thought of something else, whatever you do, create the first one in a weave you are familar with so that you work out equipment issues separate from pattern issues......

Rather than having a permanent dummy warp,once you take your piece off the loom, you could tie the rest of the remaining warp so the reed still holds it in place. You would attach a new warp to this, then just pull the reed onto the new warp when its time to use it again. But the weight is a worry, particularly with fine warps. You would have to make your own using something strong and light like bamboo strips, and I'm not sure I would have the patience for making something like that.

I know coarser reeds can be made using craft sticks, but I suspect that using a good batten is going to be quicker, lighter and easier.

I just want to say ,now that we are onto reeds and twills and dummy warps etc,....that my main idea in putting the rigid heddle on the backstrap loom was to show knitters and spinners and other non weavers that there is a way to create plain woven towels, runners, scarves etc with a minimum outlay of cash and pain-just buy a rigid heddle and set up a backstrap loom.

All this other discussion is great and I may even try to get some bamboo strips and get creative! but I am basicallyt rying to demonstrate the versatility of the backstrap loom to newbies.

Even the heddle out of one of those children's looms would work. Some of those little toy looms out of China are surprisingly well made, and they have a plastic heddle, usually around 8 or 10 dpi, and about 6 inches wide, which is a nice working size. They are also very reasonably priced; they sell for under $15.00 over here and there is no way you can buy a rigid heddle from any of the loom manufacturers for that!

I was also able to get some heddle pieces from villagespinweave.com here:

www.villagespinweave.com/IBS/SimpleCat/Product/asp/hierarchy/060A/product-id/373082.html

And they are ideal for strap weaving; they are very, very light.

In fact none of the rigid heddle reeds are very expensive, and they stock quite a few different brands.

No worries Laverne, I totally understand, I admire the fact that you decided to go outside of tradition on the backstrap in the culture you are learning from and tried the rigid heddle reed on your backstrap!

All beginners should just learn how their equipment works to lift and lower strings no matter which way you start!  Once you have your confidence up you can explore other equipment options.....Deb 

Hey Franco, I have been scratching around the house.............

Since you like all things DIY, what do you think about these matchstick blinds for a homemade reed? It would need some adaptation. I have this stretched between artist canvas stretcher frames and it is on the wall to hide the damp spot where the paint away falls off! But it is a handy thing to hang my sling braid collection on.

Very good idea. I've looked at matchstick blinds as possible candidate for rigid heddle, I wanted to drill holes in the sticks, but it looked too thin. Never really thought about using it for a reed. It may not be sturdy enough for beating.  I may have to try it anyway. It wouldn't cost much to buy some placemats made from thin bamboo strips that might fill the bill.

Let me know when you post a picture of your sling braid collection.

Have a good day!

Those are lovely, Laverne.

 i just set one of my daughters up on a rigid heddle loom.  It is not a very good loom, and we can't get very good tension on it.  I would show her how to use it with a backstrap, but she is quite pregnant.  Anyway, this is my daughter who has a problem with new things.  I'm giving her baby steps.  I'll see if she can go backstrap with it on her next project.  She always pushes through the "new thing" and feels really good after the learning is over.  I'm encouraging her to weave, because I wish i had started weaving at a younger age.  

The grandbabies don't stand a chance.  They will be weavers.  Four y/o Sammy was here yesterday when i was weaving on my Glimakra band loom.  He got to step on the treadles as I wove.  It was slow going, but it is one of his steps to learning.  Next he stood in front of the loom for a while, changing sheds and beating in the sheds with a sword.  He doesn't get the thread part yet.  Give him  a few more months.  Now his little cousin, Celia, will be weaving before she makes four.  She is very dexterous and determined.  She is close to spinning yarn with her tiny fingers.  We check on my angora rabbits together she plucks a little bit of fiber and finger spins to the best of her ability.  It doesn't usually amount to anything, but once in a while she gets a tiny bit of fiber twisted into a short piece of yarn.  "I did it!" is the usual reaction.  Isn't that just how we feel when we finish a new technique!  I know they will be weavers because I am very good at making it fun for them.  They keep coming  back for more.  I also fully expect grandkids to come here when they are teens and can't stand to be around their parents.  They will be weaving out their teen problems.  Planning ahead.

Aunt Janet

You know, Aunt Janet, you are a really great story teller. I really enjoy reading your posts. Thanks!

Laverne

Thank you, Laverne.  I have an interesting life, and lots of stories to tell. 

 I forgot to mention that while weaving on the Glimakra counterbalance loom, I put in some pick-up work that I learned here!  Thanks Laverne!  Sammy was charmed by the diamond patterns.

You ought to get some of these in stock in your workroom... one for each grandkid thats going to be weaving.

The 8 dpi is just the right size to use on worsted weight knitting yarn.. or the "cheap acrylic" yarn. The reed has enough dents for a "real" project, yet not so wide as to be "frightening" .  Then the grandkids can weave their own project along side of you.

The plastic is high quality, good feel. I have steped on, dropped, and lugged around the little rigid heddles, and have not broken one yet. --- but yet cheap enough that you don't feel bad leaving a project warped up in for a long time.

http://www.villagespinweave.com/IBS/SimpleCat/Product/asp/hierarchy/060A/product-id/373082.html

Sharon

 Sharon, thanks for that link! That one is bookmarked for sure!

Thanks, Sharon, I believe I will.

Aunt Janet 

Now that we are talking about alternative makeshift rigid heddles, I have been wondering whether it would be possible to fashion something out of needlepoint canvas?  That seems to come in all sorts of hole sizes, (pre-determined!) and would be lightweight.

Barbara

That's a possibility, but having slots next to holes is a requirement.

I think I would have to cut the web apart. Then attach somehow in a set spacing and be sure no points stick out into the slots to catch on warp.

But it might be the difference between go and no-go in a project.

Have a good day!

Oh that's right, forgot about the slots.  That leads to my next thought, of using a pulled-thread technique to open up the slots in a canvas or something. But that's basically getting into un-weaving and it might be simpler to just weave a heddle as desired!

I have tried a rigid  heddle out of needlepoint canvis... it worked..... BUT.... .... it was very fussy to make.

1) you have to make sure that the slots have NO tiny projections or slivers of plastic sticking out or your thread catches., (much fussier than just cutting the edge to finish a project)

2) it was quite 'floppy' and hard to manipulate untill I framed  it with a small piece of wood.

3)I was  unabble to use it as a reed  occcationally to check your width of your weaving.

4) I was just unhappy with the trial overall.

I have had much better luck using 'skinny sticks' or thin popcycle sticks.  For those of you outside of USA, skinny sticks are a kind of 'craft stick' simmilar to a 'popcyle' stick but about 1/2 the width of a 'normal' popcycle stick. If you drill 2 holes with the centers about 1/2" apart, and cut the stick with a exacto knife, it makes a nice slot that you can thread a larger (worsted wieght) thread though.

Sharon

Have you thought of making a cardboard rigid heddle to use with your backtrap loom?

Travis Meinhof has all the info you need here:

actionweaver.com/instruct.html

The last link will take you to a pdf file with instructions and templates for a RH and a shuttle.

Maybe a reed like the ones used here, made from reed, from Egypt would work.  I don't know how much they cost, but I could ask if you like. 

How wild would that be? I backstrap loom in Bolivia, yarn from US and a reed from Egypt!  A truly international project. :)

Oh! Very interested in having an Egyptian reed made from the real stuff! Any chance of getting a picture of one? And yes, it would be nice to know how much they cost.

Thanks Alaa!

(Deb McClintock-are you reading this?-look what you have started now!)

 I'm sorry!  Just back from 2 busy days!  Maybe we should start a new thread?

No, that's okay! You know I am just kidding around :-). Still on topic as far as I am concerned.

Hi Laverne,

You can find a picture here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32267306@N03/3993528116/in/set-721576227890...

I plan to go the a weaving center next week and will see how much they cost.  If I can't get the price there, I'll check another place.

I asked how much a loom with a 1 meter width would cost and was told it would be about $800, which is way too expensive.  But, I think the reed will be a reasonable price, or should be, since it comes from Egypt and the exchange rate is 1J ordanian dinar equals 7 Egyptian ginieh.  

Cheers!

Alaa

Thanks Alaa,

That looks really beautiful but really hefty! I had one that I bought here in Bolivia when I lived in Chile. It got left down there when I moved here and I can't persuade my ex to send it to me. It was reed but in a very simple light weight frame-just wonderful. I suspect I will be better off looking for another next time I go to the highlands. It would be interesting in any case to know how much the Egyptian ones cost. Are you thinking of buying one?

Yes, I may buy one, if the price is right.  Maybe it can be the beginning of a self built loom.:)

Alaa

I continue to play with my new rigid heddle toys on the backstrap loom and have made another mini pinwheel cloth. So I have made two now- a black and white one without rigid heddle and this red one with. Using the rigid heddle wins hands down!

I made one small square cloth which I started on a needle and then hemmed the other end. And then on the same warp I made a short runner-15'' long with fringed finish. These are in 12wpi merc cotton-washed beautifully! I used the 7.5 dpi heddle.

 Beautiful craftsmanship!  thank you for sharing....Kerstin just blogged about some older reeds on her blog page, have you seen it?  Heres the link, look at Jan 2 entry  oddweavings.blogspot.com/  These are the type of reeds I was thinking that you could use on your backstrap.....Deb Mc

Thank you Deb! I am gnashing my teeth in anguish here as this is just what the old one that I picked up here in Bolivia many years ago looked like-the second picture on her blog post resembles it most. It was a lovely light weight one like that. It got left behind in Chile when I moved here. At least now I will have a picture to show my ex in Chile who pretends not to know what I am talking about when I describe it to him and ask him to send it to me!!! (I suspect it has been given away to some antique collecting friend of his).

So are these available in the US from the Thai importers? This would be just perfect for my loom. This is my new 2010 resolution!! Find a reed like that one.

I bought the reed together with this old shuttle. They were just lying on a pile of junk in a store in La Paz.

Laverne

I just got this off the loom after taking part in the WAL using Laura fry's WeaveZine article on rosepath patterns.

Here it is after washing and  below, as I was doing the last flower pattern on the loom. I used the rigid heddle to space the warps and I was also able to use it as a beater eventhough there were two string heddles in front of it. There another two string heddles behind it.

As Caroline was commenting to me recently, there is very little yarn waste on the backstrap loom.:-)

Laverne

 Laverne, it is beautiful, here's an idea for you that I have seen in Southeast Asia.  Consider hanging the string heddles below the warp instead of on top of the warp.  You could hang a string and pull the unit down with your foot.  You'd know if it would work or not and other practical considerations!  regards  Deb

I LIKE that idea! Shall try it out.

Here's a story..........we have a new member from Macedonia who showed me a picture of his floor loom and I saw that it had a real reed reed. He directed me to some sites showing how to make reeds including the blog of a gentleman from Denmark who works with weavers in India. He was bloggng about how the handmade reed makers were being put out of busines by the manufactured metal ones. I wrote to him and now he is going to get several epi reeds made for me in India when he goes there in March. He works with ag roup of weavers there and i gather that he helps sell their stuff in Europe. I am ver y excited about this!!  Isn't the net amazing!

 great!  you can provide weight specs and sett specs geared to the backstrap!  before he gets there give him some width measurements and setts  that  would be general for backstrap stuff and see if they will make some prototypes for you to test.  yahoooooooooooo  Deb

Hi all-  Laverne- in post #78 above that shows your finished piece with the rosepath pattern - may I ask what type of yarn you used? 

Thanks!

Laurie

Hi Laverne,

In post #80 you mentioned sites showing how to make reeds. I actually have a couple of packs of wide bamboo skewers waiting to be made into a small reed. Could you share those links when you get some time?

Have a good day!

Franco Rios

Hi Laurie. That is a doubled 8/2 crochet cotton used in a 10dpi heddle. Laura suggests using doubled 8/2 in this size heddle in her article. I don't know if the crochet cotton I used and weavig yarn measure out the same but it worked very well for me. The motifs were made with embroidery floss.

This was a fun project on the backstrap loom and I am very pleased with the result. I bought a 12.5dpi rigid heddle  at CNCH so hat completes my set and I m looking forward to using that on my backstrap loom too.

Laverne

Hi Franco,

It was Goran who shared this with me....

And here is the link he gave me with a ton of great stuff in it including reedmaking. I couldn't get through it as it is a huge file and my computer had a melt down before I could get to the end of it.

www.cd3wd.com/cd3wd_40/vita/handloom/en/handloom.htm

I have just bout the book "Spiritul Fabrics" which has reed making in it too. I bought the book on this trip and haven't had a chance to have a good look through it yet but will dig it out of my luggage at some stage and tell you what it says. Yu could also try pming Goran as I believe he ha made his own reed.

BTW the chap who was going to have reeds made for me in India may be in India now and out of contact as he doesn't reply to my emails :-(  YOU will have to make one for me Franco!

Laverne

Hi Franco,

Telrahna (Helena) sent me this link on weavers in Guatemala-there are images and a video. Tell me what you think-to me this looks ike the Spanish lace technique that Syne taught in her class-pretty cool that you could make figures like that. Do you think it is pretty much the same thing?

www.endangeredthreads.org/sheereleganceinfo.htm

Laverne

That is the same kind of thing, supplementary weft for spanish lace. Of course, I think their lace is pre-Spanish.

That is a very nice website. I enjoyed the video. At the end of the video is a picture of the loom hanging on a fence. I notice the string heddle stick is kind of a bow that is attached to a dowel. I see how the mechanical advantage could be effective.

Have you seen that kind of heddle before?

EDITED TO ADD: Never mind, it is just a curved stick and it's just hanging there, it is not attached to the dowel.

Maybe I need to buy a bigger screen.

Have a good day!

Okay, I know that website, it's like 155 pages if you you were to paste it into a doc.

I didn't notice the reed making part before. I think I will have to give it a go. Thanks!

Have a good.day!

I have been looking closely on old wooden reeds lately - there are a couple of pictures on my blog.

Here are a couple more:

The upper picture shows a detail of the wrapping - in this case there are two turns of the string for each dent.
The second pic shows the holes that can still be seen after some dents have fallen out.

The space between dents is determined by the grist of the string used for wrapping/tying.

Some of my finest reeds are old wooden ones - 12,9 dents/cm (approx 32 dents per inch!) is the finest one...

Hi Laverne- Thanks for the response on the 8/2 crochet cotton in your project.  When I was crocheting more than I do now, thread was labeled as size 8, size 5, size 10, size 20, etc.  I'm assuming size 8/2 is size 8 with 2 plys - I think most of my thread has 3 plys, (DMC Cebelia)  but I do have a lot of crochet cotton, so it's nice to see a project come out so pretty when weaving with it.

Laurie

Thank you Kerstin,

That is a wonderfully detailed picture! Deb Mc Clintock told me when you first blogged about your reeds and I raced over to take a look. i SO want one of these to use on my backstrap loom-nice lightweight and so beautifully crafted.

Thank you Kerstin,

That is a wonderfully detailed picture! Deb Mc Clintock told me when you first blogged about your reeds and I raced over to take a look. i SO want one of these to use on my backstrap loom-nice lightweight and so beautifully crafted.

I thought that I had found a contact who could get them made for me in India but I have lost track of him-a Danish chap who works with weavers in India and who was more than happy to organize this but perhaps he is out of internet contact at the moment.

Perhaps we can make some kind of trade?
- the narrowest I own is a 73 cm wide, 3 dpcm one (29", 7,5 dpi), next is 74" wide, 10 dpcm (29", 25 dpi)... OTOH, you might take a saw ti it and make it a better width?

Are these some kind of antique? or is someone still making these? I am not sure about taking a saw to an antique! But ABSOLUTELY! I would love to make a trade-the 25dpi sounds like what I would want but that is pretty wide for me! If you are willing to trade both I would be happy to do that. THANK YOU!

I am in a bit of a muddle right now with the etutorial having just come out and am on the road so I will set this up with you when I get back to Bolivia. In the meantime try to think about what you would like in return. I am going to Guatemala on the way home. Pehaps there is somethig from there you would like?

Thank you Kerstin,

I had not seen any reeds made in wood. And your reeds are made just like the picture on that huge website.

Now i see how that structure goes together. Especially with the reeds missing from the frame. I think I read literature that says the reeds often have two threads through each slot? But if you have 7,5 mm spacing for rugs, would that be a single thread?

Thank you again!

Have a good day!

There is a good Swedish book on the manufacture if reeds, Vävskedsmakeri och hornslöjd, by Folke Svedenfors, Stockholm 1952 (no ISBN), which has many pictures. Text is all in Swedish, and it is hard to come by.

This website (also in Swedish - maybe online translation will work, maybe not - there are many special words...) has some few pictures and lots of text.

Most reeds have just a single turn between the tines - a very fine string for the dense reeds, a fatter one for the more open. Only the very open reeds have two turns. (Of the 51 reeds I have recently looked at, only 3 have double turns - but only 7 are open enough to be called "rug reeds" - less than 4 dpcm or 10 dpi.) The string was tarred before use.
"Industrial" (as opposed to the manufacturers working our of their homes) reed-making was started in the 1860ies in Sweden, but home-based production of both wooden and metal reeds was going on until the 1920ies.

Incidentally, the principle is still the same. I visited Lundins a couple of years ago - their machines are not very "self-working", and the spacing ot the tines is still determined by different string grists in (usually) one turn between them...

(Laverne, I have PM-ed you)

Laverne, Thanks for the website tip. I think I'd like to get the video when it is finished.  

Here is one I just watched yesterday on youtube of the same technique. Camera angle is not good but I love black and white.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgKs3J687TE

Time to revive this old old thread. I have returned to Finnweave and just wove a sample using a tutorial by David Xenakis in a 1982 issue of Prairie Wool Companion. I had forgotten how nice it is opening sheds on a balanced weave on the backstrap loom. This weave requires three sets of string heddles and a shed rod. That may sound intimidating if you are used to coaxing your sheds open on warp faced weaves but the string heddles raise the warps so easily and cleanly when you are doing a balanced weave.

I am not using a reed. So far it is manageable.

I am in training with this technique so I can weave some designs made by the Huichol people of Mexico.

I love it! You are so talented!! Thank you for all your tutorials.

After going on and on about wanrting bamboo reeds for my backstrap loom I finally managed to buy a couple at Convergence last year at a stand for Chinese minorities textiles and tools..

They are about 23 dpi and gorgeous!

Now a whole year later I have finally woven something with them. Don't get too excited. I just made a wee sample but now I am full of plans for something  a bit more ambitious. Yes, that's a big reed for that tiny sample but there are bigger things to come I hope, once I have figured out how to make this all a little less awkward.

My sample is sitting on top of a tea towel made by Betty Davenport in Sally Fox's natural colored brown, camel and green cotton and that is my inspiration!

Balanced weave is really different looking from what I usually see in your weaving. I think you have opened another chapter of your weaving.

Have a good day!

We talked about the Endangered Threads website last year and I just notice the website is down.

www.endangeredthreads.org/sheereleganceinfo.htm

Anyone know what happened?

Have a good day!

I was wondering if anyone of you could possibly help me out.

Backstrap weaving has been my first method of weaving, coming from a background of knitting yarn terminology.  So, I have not touched a weaving loom of any sort or learned the thread/yarn size numbering. I have been wanting to learn to weave the balanced method on the backstrap loom with some rigid heddles. I am ready to order some rigid heddle reed segments, but I need a bit of help.

Can someone please help me with this:

What size rigid heddle dpi do I need for lace and fingering weight yarns? At present I am going to work with the knitting yarn I have and then I will grow from there.   Or how to figure it out myself. 

Can someone point me in the direction of a good chart that would cover the sizing of yarns/threads for weaving so I know what I am looking at when I see the numbers for weaving threads?

Thanks for putting up with the basic of basic questions.   I have been trying to do some google searches, but when you don't know terminology then no amount of googling helps.

Thanks, Becky

That lace work is elegant and gorgeous! 

I really want to learn that.  Does anyone know of a websight that I can find out more information to learn on the backstrap loom?

This is something far down the road as I am just beginning to explore on the backstrap loom, but it has been my goal to do just this.

The answer in weaving is usually it depends.  But let's make some assumptions and get you started.  The trick here is to determine the number of wraps per inch of the yarn you want to use. (Use a ruler, make the wraps touch each other snugly but not on top of another and count.) Assuming that you are using the same yarn  as weft a balanced plain weave is wraps per inch(wpi) divided by 2.  With some experience you will adjust the sett to get what you like.

For example if you get 18wpi this formula suggests that 9 ends per inch (epi) would be the desired sett.  Rigid heddles come in 8 or 10 epi and I would chose the 10 epi one because you are considering springy yarns that will stretch out and be skinnier under tension required to be warp.

the moderator of this group has a blog all about backstrap weaving, http://backstrapweaving.wordpress.com/.  It has many tutorials for beginning to advanced backstrap weavers.

The Endangered Threads Huipils are wide cloths made with fine threads in a combination of plain weave, leno and brocade or inlay. The patterns are weaver controlled somethimes called pick-up.  

That appears great, as well as you do a awesome job near to the edges!

Hi, finally I ended my table runner on the backstrap loom. Hier some pictures, but you can see more on my blog.

http://gracielaforadoritecnicastextiles.blogspot.com/

 Have a nice day! Graciela

Hi Graciela,

I enjoyed seeing your small pictures here but couldn't find this project on your blog. Do you have a more specific link, please? I did see your beautiful curtanis on the projects page here.

Hi Laverne,   When I " clic" on the link

http://gracielaforadoritecnicastextiles.blogspot.com/

I agree to the page. Under the date January 31, 2011 is the development and photos. If you have any trouble said me and I can send you  an email and an attachment with the photos.Greetings. 

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