I have a rigid heddle, ashford 32", with a second heddle. I'm considering upgrading to maybe a table loom with 8 shafts. Any input on this change would be helpful. At present I can do 4 shafts on the RH and have used pick up sticks for patterns. Would I be any better off with a table loom with 4 or 8 shafts? I'd like to do things like twill & overshot.
Cathy S/Willowwind
Hi Cathy,
Any particular reason why you want a table loom rather than a floor loom? With a table loom and 8 shafts any pattern, especially overshot and shadow weave, moves very, very slowly. You have to pull levers with your hands, throw the shuttle, beat the weft, change the levers, change the shuttle , beat the weft. All with your hands. A floor loom puts your feet to work pressing treadles to raise and lower the shafts.
If space is a problem, there are lots of space saving choices in a floor loom, too. You can buy an 8 shaft Julia brand new for under $1500. for a countermarche loom!
Just my 2cents.
Claudia
I'm kind of tight on space is the reason I'm looking at a table loom instead of a floor loom. I'd originally thought about getting a Baby WOlf from the Woolery. It folds up. But with the 32" RH loom in the dining room too, I just don't have room for a floor loom, although I'd love to have one.
Cathy
Cathy,
If you can borrow or rent a table loom from a local guild and give it a try, I strongly recommend you do. I am vey lucky, space is not a problem although I have been told no more looms, I do have a huge one in the basement and we had to reorganize the space for me to get it.
Good luck with your search for an 8 shaft loom. It's fun having more choices than the rh loom and it's worth a try. I have a friend who talked her husband into letting her sell the dining table so she could have a drawloom in there. He agreed, thinking the table wouldn't sell. She posted it everywhere and had her drawloom within a month. Now there's a big loom!!
Keep us posted on what you do.
Claudia
I have two RH looms, and I borrowed an 8S table loom for a double weave workshop. It was really a lot of fun to play with, but it took a lot more time to put the warp on, although the weaving was much faster than a RH, especially for twills and more complicated patterns. After I took that workshop I really got the "weaving bug", and bought a floor loom. Of course one floor loom isn't enough, so I'm looking for a second one. Obviously space is not a problem.
But if space is a problem, depending on the table loom, you may not be saving more space with a TL compared to a FL. The loom I borrowed was a Tools of the Trade loom which was extremely heavy. I had to put it on a table which made it very high, so I either had to stand to weave, or use a high bar stool to sit on. I used the stool, but it was uncomfortable and not a position I would want to be in for a long time. This loom was wonderful, but not something I would want to have to take out and put away every time I used it. So if you buy a TL with a stand, which would certainly be the way to go, you'll probably use up almost the same space as a small FL. I know that some table looms fold up, but I would think you would still need a stand for it.
Doreen
I have a 32 inch RH loom set up to weave with three heddles. I also have a LeClerc 8S Voyageur 15 3/4 table loom on a stand and a 36 inch Kessenich 4S floor loom.
I have found that it takes longer to warp the floor loom but the weaving is faster. For the table loom (even warping just 4 shafts) the warping and weaving take about the same time. With the RH loom even set up with multiple heddles the warping is fast but the weaving is slow. Which appeals to you?
What width of table loom are you looking for? My Voyageur is great for taking to workshops but it is a bit narrow for a lot of things. If you go up to a 24 inch table loom it will take up as much space as some floor looms. Yes, it can be put on your dining room table but you will have to stand to weave. I bought a stand for my Voyageur just so I can sit and weave. But that does take up floor space.
What do you want to weave? If you want to weave towels then any loom is fine. If you are looking to weave rugs than that cuts down your options to heavy floor looms as most floor and table looms can't give you a tight enough tension and could be damaged.
if your floor space is limited you could look into table looms that have an optional stand with treadles to change the table loom into a floor loom. Or purchase a 22 inch or 24 inch floor loom that folds when not in use.
I started with a RH loom, then bought the 8Sntable loom and finally the 4S floor loom. Even if you decide to get a floor loom first you will probably want to add a table loom if only just to take to workshops.
Take your time and look around. At some point a loom is going to say MINE. Sometimes weaving guilds rent looms. That would be a great way to try different looms. Do you have a weaving guild near you?
Don't have a local weaving guild that I know of. I probably need to fully explore the RH loom with 2 heddles first before I upgrade. I think I could squeeze in a Baby Wolf, 25 inch loom if I really try. I have already put up my 24 inch Beka to make more room. We currently have 3 families living in my house (2 are from divorces, one with an autistic child living here too) so space is at a premium. Weaving is a thearpy for me from the stress, I sew, quilt & do machine embroidery as therapy too. Maybe, closer to Christmas, I will make a decision about a floor loom. Many years ago I used to have a small table loom, perhaps 20 inch width or so, but I went back to school & sold the loom since I didn't have time to weave while in grad school Anyway, I'm back to it now. This post has gone way too long. As far as projects, anything from scarves, to towels, to rugs are a possibility. We'll see how it goes.
Cathy S/Willowwind
If space is a premium, I would sell the rigid heddle and get the 8S floor loom. Anything you want to explore on the rh can be done on the floor loom, and often easier and faster. A folding floor loom (and there are a number of decent ones) doesn't take much space and can be lugged to a class if needed. It gives you more options and is a great stress buster when you get your hands and feet flying.
You asked about 4S vs 8S - go with the 8. You can always use just 2 or 4 of the 8 when you desire, but if you have 4 and want 8 you are stuck. 8S give more patterning options for any structure.
Laurie Autio
Almost 30 years ago I bought a 4s LeClerc Artisat loom that folds to 14 inches deep. I never needed to completely fold it because I found I could use it as a desk, a sewing table, and my weaving work station. I folded up the back and placed a piece of 3/4 inch plywood about 12 by 36 inches on top of the breast beam and the shuttle race. I originally did it as "cat-proofing" and got a work station too. It more than earns its floor space.
Carie
I was blessed to find a NEW, unassembled Schacht 20 in/8 shaft table loom with a stand... are you sitting down?... for 50 dollars!!
I have had 2 floor looms for a few years but warping fear kept me from moving beyond tapestry weaving, continuous weaving on small looms, or short rigid heddle warps. I love this loom and feel like the fear can now be beat and I can sell my floor looms (and recover the use of SO much space!).
I have been looking for table loom weaving instructions as the Schacht company only offers assembly instructions on this loom!Any ideas??
Thanks -
Michele
hi Michele, your 8S loom will warp up in similar fashion to a floor loom. You don't need instructions from Schacht, but could do with a copy of Debbie Chandler's Learning to Weave. She tells you how to warp up several different ways. She covers threading drafts, reading drafts, selvedges, etc, everything that a beginning weaver needs to know. The only difference really is that instead of dancing on treadles, youraise and lower shafts to get the sheds. The book is written for jack looms, which are table looms with treadles, so there are very few adjustments to be made to what she has written.
If you can warp a rigid heddle loom, you can warp an 8 shaft loom. Its a bit trickier than the RH loom, but much easier than the floor loom, and you don't have to worry about tie-ups, :-)! Another advantage for the table loom is that the heddles are so much easier to reach - a big advantage if you have short arms like I have, hehe! If you suddenly fancy doing a wide piece, you can do a double weave twill on your 8 shaft loom, and there are a wide choice of patterns. You aren't stuck with having to use all 8 shafts, you can use as many or as few as you want, and you will be able to do longer pieces once you get the hang of warping up. I warp up by myself, and while I would not win any prizes for elegance, my method works, which is all that matters.
Your $50.00 loom sounds like a bargain, even if you have to replace a few things, and I am sure you will come to love it, and the versatility it gives you. My biggest problem is seeing the different heddles and the shafts they are on as I try to thread them with white warp - I get quite cross-eyed, ;-)!
$50 is a great price for a decent table loom. However, I would not sell both of the floor looms until you try them. The table loom does have the advantage of being slightly more portable and allowing all combinations of shafts without retieing (like a computer dobby). It does not replace a floor loom.
The process of weaving on and warping table and floor looms is very similar, and can be found in any good beginning weaving book or online. If you can handle one, you can handle the other (barring physical limitations). You save time in warping an 8S table loom over a floor loom because you don't tie multiple shafts to the levers. You lose all of that time and a huge amount more by having to flip the lever for each shaft for each pick. So, rather than press one treadle, you will flip 1 to 7 levers for each pick, and must select them without errors. Plus, you will flip with your hands, rather than treadling with your feet, meaning putting down the shuttle and picking it up again. SLOW, SLOW, SLOW, no rhythm.
Laurie Autio
Caroline, You can color the heddle eyes to make them easier to see. Use a different color for each, or a different color on every other, or every 4th shaft. Or, color the bar that the heddles attach to. Another way to see where you are easily is to lift every other shaft slightly. On a computerized loom you can treadle the threading, but it is harder to keep track of where you are on a non-computerized loom in this process. Glasses that suit the distance are a real help. Oddly enough it is usually easier to thread a floor loom, despite the distances, because there is generally more room to see what is going on and move things around. Outside of wishing that my arms were a few inches longer I can thread my 32 shaft Weavebird quickly and accurately.
Any floor loom can be warped by a single person without help if you know the tricks. That includes monsters like my Weavebird, which is almost 6 feet deep. A few weights, maybe a trapeze, and you are in business.
Laurie Autio
hi Laurie, I coloured the top of the heddles, but will go ahead and outline the heddle eyes as you have suggested. That sounds much better! My tri-focals did not cope with altering the focus within such a short distance, less than 2 feet, so threading the reed was a slow process too, but its done. I think my next warp will be a much simpler draft!
I did rig up a temporary tension box to help with the beaming; it makes things so much easier than using weights, and I intend making it a permanent set-up.
Hi Michele, Don't be afraid of warping the loom. Some weavers actually enjoy the warping more than the weaving. You might consider purchasing a copy of my new book, Learning to Warp your Loom.
Before buying more equipment, be advised that a table loom is a table loom, remains a table loom even if treadles and other mechanical aids are applied, and remains awkward as table looms are pretty much awkward weaving devices. (And we make and sell a table loom for sampling).
A table loom is neither fish nor fowl - because of the small size for portabiilty and being designed to work on a flat surface, it is usually much more difficult to thread the heddles and reed (no castle to hang things like the reed from). A table loom without treadles is slow. A table loom with treadles is a rigged solution that will never rival a small floor loom with properly designed treadles. The frame on a table loom is more cramped than a small floor loom of the same size making everything about it more awkward.
For some reason, new weavers with a rigid heddle loom that works perfectly well in the lap or on a table "graduate" to these table looms and then wonder why their weaving becomes more difficult. And at least be a little discriminating in accepting older table looms. Some will be ok, but many have no depth (good loom needs to be at least 26" deep for enough warp movement), levers that cut your hand, flimsy parts, rust, etc. These are no bargain, even if free, as you'll only be frustrated by poor quality fabric.
Instead of dreaming about more, expensive "loom control" items that look like they'll make your weaving "easier" - concentrate on learning how threads work with each other, how materials influence your fabric, how good design is not an easy thing - and by all means determine what direction you'd like to take in your weaving. Looms are not one size does everything. And last, but not least, the number of shafts can help you achieve what appears to be fancier patterning, but even there, there is a l imit to what "shafts" can do for your weaving if you do not understand their role in creating cloth.
I've been folling this post... Just thought that I would add my 2 cents. I have two floor rug looms in the basement. Because of certain issues I never get down there to weave on them and running the stairs while teaching my children to weave on them is not a good option either. I like them and especially enjoy weaving on one of them. This year I picked up an old glimakra loom. It is a 4H expandable to 8H table loom with its own stand. I now have this set up in my dining room and my children weave on it. It is easy for me to be available to them when they have questions. I thought that I "wanted" a full sized glimakra of my own. lol Who doesn't. lol However after helping them with their table loom, I realized that I would be very happy with a small table loom for me. A friend help my find a Mountain table loom that is 8H. I now have this set up in my living room. I love it. I'm playing with weaving... I do it for my enjoyment...relaxing in the evening when I only have a few minutes. Right now I'm not after fast... The table looms are slower, but they fit my needs for now. I want to understand stucture and explore different small projects. I'm very busy with my family and these two small looms right in the middle of our active areas are perfect for us. Maybe someday down the road I'll get that big glimakra, but my weaving knowledge will have grown so much between now and then because I choose to use that table loom in the meantime.
Remember each of us is at a different stage in life. What is right for one may not to right for all.
Well that's is my two cents worth. lol
Liza
Isn't it great to have so many different opinions? You can see 'both sides of the story', then decide what's best for you. I love posting questions to this group with so many knowledgeable weavers who, like you said Liza, are at different stages in life and live in different environments. Everyone is so polite and eager to help. Weavolution is the first thing I check every day.
Doreen
