Satin threading - what else can I weave?

 any way you can put a wif up on the drafts page or at least take a picture of your threading / treadling to give us an idea if we don't have the book?  

What type of avl, computer driven? manual dobby?  treadle?  

Hi Deb -

I scanned the page out of the book and put it on the drafts page.  [I hope that is not a copyright violation! Will remove pronto, if so.]  It's labeled as Sharon Alderman's draft from MSW pg 81.

As I mentioned, I threaded the colors a little differently.

I have the CD3 on the AVL40.  I'm using WeaveMaker 8.4.x software and could easily modify the .wif  (which I'm still looking for on this computer (different from the computer I weave with) so you can see the draft I'm working with.

Catherine

 I'm sure someone will tell us if we haven't given enough credit to the author or shared info in an incorrect format....will look at it and see

ha!  just looked at what you put up and learned something new about sharing information...I assumed you'd just upload a jpg but you put up a pdf, the pdf  that you uploaded is down at the lower right side below your description.  When I clicked on it the file automatically downloaded and I could open it here at home.  That is good news, I know someone somewhere in weavo was trying to do that without success! So we are pdf enabled here at weavo!

here's the link so folks can see where the pdf ended up  www.weavolution.com/node/7128

have to go do some chores but I'll look at your pdf today.  regards  Deb

I'll write to Sharon and make sure it's okay. Leave it up for now and I double check with her.

Claudia

Thanks Deb and Claudia.

I guess I should have said that I uploaded a PDF file in my previous post.

The odd thing is I can't upload both the PDF --and-- a JPG (for the little photo box); at lease I didn't see a way to do it.

---

I've added the .WIF file for this modified Alderman draft into the drafts area: 15-S-threeBlockDamask-satin-sateen-BR-GD-NT.wif   

Please let me know if you cannot open it as there may have been a problem converting from WeaveMaker (.wmd) to .WIF.

Thanks,

Catherine

I think that is one of the quirks in Drupal. I believe you can load the jpg or the pdf in the description box by clicking on the picture logo. There is a YouTube description for that here. Then, Drupal will allow you to load the jpg in the "Upload a file" section.

Weavolution is built on a Drupal platform which allows us to provide lots of features essential to a social network but there are a few things we cannot change and, I believe, that is one of them. I will check with our dev team but am certain that's one of the limitations.

Claudia

Hi Catherine,

You can do tons on this threading!

I would start by dividing your tie-up into blocks of 5 threads (corresponding to the blocks of 5 threads you have in the threading).  So, split the tie-up into shafts 1-5, shafts 6-10, and shafts 11-15.

I've created a draft that I hope will illustrate some of the things you can do.  (It's at http://www.weavolution.com/node/7130 .)  The first five treadles show what happens if you use the same pattern in blocks 1-5, 6-10, and 11-15: you get an allover pattern.  So if you want to weave plain satin, or a 2/3 twill, or anything at all that's weavable on a 5-shaft straight draw pattern, you can do it.

The second five treadles show what happens if you use three different patterns for shafts 1-5, 6-10, and 11-15.  Shafts 1-5 are tied up for satin, 6-10 are tied up for twill, 11-15 are tied up in a pattern I made up.  If you repeat this treadling, you get satin on shafts 1-5, twill on 6-10, and my made-up pattern on 11-15.

The last ten treadles show how you can alternate blocks to create a checkerboard pattern rather than stripes.  Treadles 11-15 and 16-20 are reverses of each other (what was up is down, what was down is up).  By alternating them you can get a checkerboard pattern.

You don't have to use inverses for creating alternating blocks.  You can alternate any treadling you like, e.g. you could alternate treadles 1-5, then 16-20, then 6-10, etc.  You'd get a mishmash pattern but it would work.

The only caveat I would have in your explorations is to make sure that all your patterns have about the same number of warp/weft intersections in each repeat of the pattern (i.e. don't alternate plainweave with a 5-end satin).  Otherwise you'll get different take-up in different regions of the pattern, and you'll wind up with sagging warp ends. Since you're already sleyed for a 5-end satin, I'd use patterns that mostly have two warp-weft intersections per repeat, since that's what satin has.

I hope this hasn't been too confusing - blocks were a total head-twister for me until I sat down and spent some time working them out.  Feel free to ask if you have any questions!

Tien

Thanks Tien -

I was beginning to get that "DUH!" feeling whilst playing with this draft in WeaveMaker and your post completed the light bulb moment.  I essentially just have a striped warp with 3 - 5thread block in the tie-up. Thanks so much for offering your example to drive that message home for me. 

In my defense... it is very cold here! : )  My brain is frozen.   I also tend to get a little tunnel vision when looking at a draft the way it came to me rather than thinking outside the box about alternatives.  I'm not all that creative really - but I guess you could tell that by my color choices, eh?  : )

Still sampling on the computer but I'll upload any good alternatives I come up with for more commentary.

Keep those suggestions coming.

Catherine

Let's see, with a five end repeat you can do a huck, a twill with 3/2 rather than 2/2 tie up, a small waffle weave, and probably a bunch of other stuff.

If you stop thinking of threading drafts as dedicated to one weave structure but simply a set of possibilities that can be assigned different values, you will begin to see the options.  The more weave structures you become familiar with, the more options will become possible to you.

Happy Holiday!

Laura

Hi Catherine,

It is inappropriate to copy a page from a book or magazine onto the website. As for the draft itself, 5 shaft satin threading is in the public domain as are most standard drafts.

It is fine to use a pattern from a book for your own projects as long as you are not selling them. Posting it on the website without the author's permission is not okay. Sharon is a Weavolution member and is very accessible to the public. I would suggest you contact her directly and ask her permission to post the draft. Unless you have her permission, it has been removed. Your draft, which is your creation as inspired by the book, is there to share with everyone and can be found here: http://www.weavolution.com/node/7129

To quote the article in Handwoven regarding copyright:

In the weaving world, there are some designs that are so commonplace that they are not copyrightable. For example,
no one owns the copyright in the draft for point twill or basic huck lace. But, if the draft appears in a book or magazine,
you still do not have the right to reproduce the actual page out of the book and distribute it or to weave the pattern as
written and sell it or show it, because that particular expression of the basic design is still protected by copyright.

Thanks,

Claudia, Weavolution co-founder
 

 Here's some jpgs as I am still a novice on uploading weavemaker wifs.  I prefer Weave it but for some reason I cannot open your wif on my weaveit (ibm) so I am on my mac (weavemaker) and can open the file.  It is purely use error not the programs fault!  

Here is a jpg of the fabric if you just fool with satin warp face and satin weft face in the lift plan, I didn't match your colors exactly (I lifted Tien's wif and put in some of the color you had to give an effect).  Following is the lift plan jpg.

The peg plan is below, I copied in some of my satin experiment peg plans into your draft..., don't forget that your warp face and weft face cloth will look different even with the same color since you are exposing the opposite color with the structure.  Tien gave you lots of options in her note.  My current preference is to experiment in my peg plan to see how the pattern moves and the colors change.  My biggest message is let go of squares and symmetry and let some flow enter into your vertical lines with color shifts.  Good luck!  Deb

Thanks for all the updates.   [my "backside" of the fabric does, indeed, look entirely different than the "front side"]

I, in no way, wanted or desired to violate any copyright, hence the superfluous attribution to Sharon Alderman's book/draft.  Please know I had no intention to compromise anyone's intellectual property or livelihood. I merely had a question about what to do next.  I did buy her book to use in this instance.

I am inspired by the alternatives you ladies have been able to offer and have been playing with the draft myself. 

If I don't come up with something inspirational, I'll just cut it off since, as many of you probably agree, life is too short to keep a warp on your loom that isn't getting woven off.  The first 7+ yards were okay... but... I've reached that point now where something's gotta give.

My humble apologies to Sharon Alderman for not seeking/requesting permission in advance and to all of you for your indulgence. 

C.

Thanks Catherine. I hope you'll give us an update and post pictures when you get a chance.

I totally agree, life's too short to work on something that doesn't "speak" to you. There is a thread in the Rigid heddlers group around the same issue. Why keep weaving just because it's on the loom. I usually put the cross back in and chain it off. I did that with a linen warp about 2 years ago and went back to it last week. What fun to have a pre-wound warp to play with and the 2 towels I wove were brand new.

Claudia

Catherine, perhaps your warp seems limited in scope because of the stripes.  You might find more interesting things to do with it if the values were close, all similar to the darkest stripe now. Then you could cross it with a pale weft and do a bunch of different kinds of designs. Test this with your weaving software. If you find some drafts that you like, consider pulling some warp forward over a prepared surface and painting the light parts a darker color.

Just an idea...

As a learning experience, remember how long a warp keeps your interest with just one or two drafts.  I do not warp my loom with a given threading and yarn unless I have already created a bunch of different drafts that I like for that warp. My problem is that I get bored too easily in general, so I prefer to avoid short repeats in my drafts.

Bonnie Inouye.  I will be in Colorado in April, in Denver, and then in western CO all summer as usual. Where are you, Catherine?