I am beginning to study overshot and reading Helene Bress, Davison (Source book), Weaver's and various older issues of Handwoven. Every draft appears to have just one treadling making it difficult to do more than sample a border and one pattern. I would love to try variuos, 3-5, different patterns but it does not seem possible. Am I missing something? Does anyone have a suggestion for a draft with one threading and several different treadlings so that I can try different patterns?
TIA for any suggestions,
Claudia
Hi Claudia,
If you look at learning a weave from a historical perspective, many of the patterns were designed to be woven in one way. And the longer the draft and the bigger the pattern, the more you will find mostly one way to weave it.
But we experimental weavers want to weave samplers. You can do this with almost any threading, but you will not find many written patterns. You can create them yourself. Or, you can use the short patterns in Davison which shows more than just a few treadlings. The beginning of each of the first chapters, thousand flowers, diamonds and rose patterns will give you some choices. Then you can try making your own.
Joanne
The most of the patterns in Anne Dixon's The Handweaver's Pattern Dictionary have more than one treadlings, even for the Overshot ones. They are not real complicated overshot patterns, but are interesting.
Thanks Joanne, I'll go back to Davison and check out the patterns you suggest. I have just started reading the Source book and working on figuring out the drafts. Some actually indicate 22 repititions of threading 2-3 and that seemed odd to me. I haven't seen other patterns with this configuration in the threading. The one I am referring to is on page 12- Jitterbug. Reading the drafts is new to me and I feel a little worried about understanding correctly. I have read her explanation in the beginning several times.
I really like the one for Abigail Steadman Coverlet on p 34. I am correct in reading the draft for threading 3-4 ten times at the beginning?
Thanks,
Claudia
Hi Claudia,
Are you referring to the other Davison book? I gave my copy away, so I cannot look up the pages and drafts you mention. But yes, overshot drafts often have 2 or 3 parts, and sometimes a larger border. And throughout the center you often thread alternating two parts and then end with an end threading or one of the parts. Do check your threading frequently and regularly as you thread, as it is very frustrating to find an error.
Joanne
Also keep in mind that in theory, overshot only has 2 different treadlings, rose fashion and star fashion.
If I understand it correctly, star fashion you raise the shafts that were not threaded. So, if your first block in the draft you threaded block a, shaft 1 & 2, you would raise shafts 3+4. If you threaded 5 ends in that block, you would raise those shafts 5 times.
Rose fashion would be the opposite, you would raise warp ends 1&2 when you threaded 1&2.
At least that's my understanding. I'm learning about overshot myself and working my way through The Complete Book of Drafting for Handweavers by Mandelyn van der Hought. I found that the overshot section in this book is really detailed and thorough, though it's taking my a long time to be able to absorb it.
Of course you can weave overshot on different treadlings. One popular sampler has 4 or 5 different overshot threadings across the same warp. Then you treadle each threading "as writ" and the other threadings weave the same treadling, but the result is different for each threading area.
HI Claudia...reading these drafts can prove tricky...remember that you must keep the twill order intact as you thread....i.e. 1 is always followed by either 2 or 4, 2 is always followed by 1 or 3, 3 is always followed by 2 or 4 and 4 is always followed by 1 or 3.
You thread overshot in blocks....blocks of overshot for four shafts consist of the following:
12
23
34
14
The draft on page 12 is threaded:
2-1-2-1
2-3-2-3
4-3-4-3
4-1-4-1
2-1-2-1
2-3-2-3
4-3-4-3
4-1-4-1
2-1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2-1
2-3-2-3-2-3-2-3-2-3-2-3
4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3 etc......
If you look at it you can see that block A (1-2) is threaded two times, followed by Block B (2-3) threaded two times. Next come Block C (3-4) threded 2 times and Block D (1-4) threaded 2 times. This is repeated, then Block A is threaded 6 times in a row, followed by Block B 6 times, and Block C 8 times. This should help you see how the rest of the patter is to be threaded. To weave, you can weave as drawn in, or you can just weave the different overshot blocks any way you choose. As long as you weave the block with alternating pattern blocks vs. tabby, you'll be fine. You can actually design as you go by choosing which block to weave and weaving the ground cloht every other pick.
Hope that helps....
Su :-)
If you have enough shafts or harnesses, you can combine two different threadings into one if they have been modified to have the same number of threads.
Draw a diagram of each section of the pattern on graph paper. Draw the alternate threading above it.
For pattern A, thread onto shaft/harness 1 those that are on shaft/harness 1 of A and also B. Shaft/harness 2 gets those on 1-A and 2-B; shaft/harness 3 gets 1-A and 3-B etc.
For tie-up, to weave pattern 1 & variants tie each set of 4 shaft/harnesses up as if it were a single shaft/harness.
If you want more detail, feel free to contact me.
Thank you all.
Su, I went back and reread the first few pages of the Source book and your explanation makes sense to me now. Thanks for taking the time to spell it out so clearly.
Mneligh, I am going to have to put your suggestion on paper. I think I will stick to working with treadling the blocks in different order for now and see how the sampler develops.
Badfaerie, I am going to read the Vander Hoogt book as you suggest. I never realized that it is either star or rose but now recall seeing that mentioned in the Bress book.
I am sure to have more questions as I continue to study before designing my sampler on PixeLoom.
Thanks,
Claudia
Claudia, one of the strengths of the Weaving Book by Helene Bress is the way it shows you so many methods and designs for any given overshot threading. If you read the text and keep going, I think Helene will give you the answers you seek. I am away from home now and cannot check my copy but I know there are many options given.
Really you can weave any 4-shaft overshot threading with any 4-shaft overshot treadling! If your treadling is longer than your threading, your motifs will be longer than they are wide, which can be pretty but is not traditional. With weaving software you can sample easily by copying a treadling and pasting it into another draft. Think about the effect of the threading on the design of the cloth, and then the effect of the treadling on the design of the cloth. You are never limited to what you find in books or magazines. But Helene's book can guide you through this process.
If you are using more than 4 shafts, there are fewer references and more options but the idea is the same- except that you can also change the tie-up. Lots more options.
Bonnie (in Tallahassee, Florida right now)
Contrary to the usual sampling process where weavers want to sample variations on their first project using a new technique or structure, I usually begin by doing a single project, following closely the source I'm using, to get into the process. There will be countless little moments where tidbits are learned, you'll see the relationship between the draft on paper and the cloth on the loom, you'll work our any inherent issues with tension, material choice, sett, etc.
Years ago, before weaving software, I did some samples of overshot blocks out of Davison's "Pattern Book" this way - analyzed the results, and went on to work up two Abigail Steadman coverlets from that book - complete with borders - that are still nice today. Following instructions carefully to get good results can be very conducive to learning in depth and moving on to "design" far more quickly than jumpin in with a complex project and never fully understanding what it in play.
Make a short warp less than a foot wide, pick one of the large, complex blocks, and test it using various wefts and color combination - you'll be really surprised how much that will show you and how much info you'll store for future exploration.
Thank you very much Sara. Your comments and suggestion combined with all the wonderful thoughts and ideas from the others who responded to my question have given me what I need to move forward. I have been asked, by a friend, to make her a coverlet and felt I needed to learn more about overshot before I dove into a large project. I have my eye on one of the drafts in the Davison Pattern book and I like the idea of putting on a short warp, threading it for one draft and just do as Sara has suggested.
I'll keep you posted on my progress. Heading to the studio later today to pick out yarns!
Claudia
Hi Claudia,
Now that we know what you are doing, I agree with Sara. It is better to select a pattern and sample that pattern, select threads, determine shrinkage, etc. Have fun with the project.
Joanne
Claudia, Helen Jarvis' book Weaving a Traditional Coverlet covers all the bases and more, check your guild library or Amazon.
My post wast not intended as a "do this the first time" suggestion but rather "in addition to the possibilities of treadling the known ways, you could also do this". I agree that for the first sampler, find a single simple threading and weave as the book says for the first sample. That way you know you have everything correct and understood. Then try the common variants of treadlings. Progress to the hybrid threadings at least a few pieces down the road.
I really love " Weaving Overshot, Redesigning the Tradition" by Donna Lee Sullivan.ISBN 1-883010-23-3 If you can find this book it, It my be out of print. It explains the drafts and is just an excellent book on the subject.
You can get much different results from the same threading by treadling star, rose, and shifted rose fashion. Check out the excellent article at: http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weavi... to learn how this works. You can also "feather" the tabby by eliminating the tabby shots between opposite sheds, adding them only for like sheds.
Thanks for all the wonderful suggestions. I am doing some samples on PixeLoom and then will start threading the loom soon. I like the idea of feathering the tabby and look forward to reading the article you have posted the link for. I appreciate the helpful ideas.
Claudia
