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Has anyone tried making real corduroy fabric on a loom???

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kruegger100's picture
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Has anyone tried making real corduroy fabric on a loom? or does anyone have any videos links to how it is made???

 

 

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Sally Orgren's picture
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Yes. Check projects, Double Corduroy

There IS a technique to throwing the shuttles, and then trimming the fabric loops consistently. It is a time-consuming weave as it takes many passes to build up the areas of pile.

For our guild program, we sampled the technique in rug wools, but I assume you can scale it down for finer fabric by using much finer fibers.

I am not sure what you mean by "real"? What do you want to make out of it?

The project can be found at http://weavolution.com/node/13670

Does anyone know if Kay Faulkner experimented with this weave structure in finer fibers? I know she gave a spectacular presentation on velvet weaving at Complex Weavers Seminars last summer.

Sally

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Robyn Spady teaches this in

Robyn Spady teaches this in one of her workshops. If you belong to a guild, she's a fantastic teacher to bring in for workshops. spadystudios.com

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Joined: 06/08/2009
Last summer I wove several

Last summer I wove several (rug) corduroy samples for a study in our guild. I also searched for tips, tricks, qualities for corduroy fabric. What I found was not very helpful... On handweaving.net there is a book by John Murphy that has lots of drafts labelled "cord". In the text parts he describes how to finish the "cords", and that includes cutting the pile.

I wove small samples of some of his drafts in "fabric" qualities, but, to be honest, I don't think they are useable. The pile feels (to me) not "anchored" enough.

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Joined: 05/29/2009
A year or so ago I did some

A year or so ago I did some pile samples - rya, knotted cut pile and corduroy. The corduroy draft came from a Finnish magazine - the pile was lush and looks nice as a wall hanging or cushion, but, as Kerstin points out, the pile is not anchored by the knot used in the other two techniques.

 

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Sally Orgren's picture
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Okay, I must add Sara's

Okay, I must add Sara's project was *spectacular* and memorable. I believe she posted at least one of them here at Weavolution when she completed it.

What impressed me about Kay Faulkner's presentation on velvet weaves at Complex Weaver's Seminars last summer was that she had lots of beautiful samples, including one that was to cover a book, so her fabrics were much closer to "real" fabric with a softer hand and flexibility. That was the first time I saw something that didn't look anything close to a wall hanging or bathroom rug in the technique. (Not sure I could make a pair of pants out it, though ;-). Kay is based in Australia, and I just noticed she has a blog. Maybe poke around there?

So kruegger10, what are you wanting to make? Does it have to be corduroy, or are you thinking about a pile weave in general? Are you willing to weave with very fine threads and closer setts to work toward "real" fabric?

Sally

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Bonnie Datta's picture
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Fragile and heavy

I wove some wool corduroy and agree that the pile is not anchored well enough to stand up to hard use.  I had to be very careful when cutting it to not pull too much to one side or the other.  Also, when finished the fabric was so heavy it was unusable for a ruana (my idea when weaving it) and ended up being two throws -- still very heavy but DH and my son love them.

Bonnie.

 

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I'm putting up some photos of

I'm putting up some photos of the rya, knotted pile and corduroy samples - first is the corduroy. You can see that the vertical lines on the back are where the pile is secured.

corduroy

Below is the front with the cut pile. You can see where the rows form vertically.

corduroy - back side

Below is a detail.

corduroy detail

Using the same warp and same yarns, I did a rya piece.

rya backside

Here the knots form horizontal rows on the back side. With several tabby rows between, the pile is much more securely fastened.

rya front

Here is the front. Detail shown below.

rya detail

The knotted pile - on a different warp with the same materials - as you can see, each technique has its own appearance.

ruglet

Of the three types of pile, the knotted pile has the greatest detail and is extremely durable. The rya is a close second for designs that do not demand tight detail. Hohwever, the corduroy didn't lend itself to detailed patterning and wasn't as stable as the other two.

 

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kruegger100's picture
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thanks Sally Orgren for you

thanks Sally Orgren for you comments. i was looking to make actual corduroy fabric for making jackets, pants, clothing like this:

 

 

Do you have experience with making this type of corduroy and do you know what is the best type of loom to use to make such fabric and any other details about making this. Also i seem to have problems with my account login here so if you could you can e-mail me at kruegger100@yahoo.com. Thanks

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So everyone can look at this

So everyone can look at this - here is a link to the production of commercial garment weight corduroy

 http://ptj.com.pk/Web-2009/06-09/PDF-June-2009/Weaving-ITM-Matchpoint-Corduroy.pdf

Note that the cuting operation for the pile is far more complicated than any step we normally associate with handweaving. Offhand, I'd say that making fabric as you picture - with alternating thick and thin wales with different pile height is not doable on the standard handloom. If you have a loom that does very fine threads, you might be able to attempt this, but you'd definitely need a second warp beam - and you'd need to cut the pile on the loom under tension - in a straight line without cutting the wrong threads. That is a pretty big order for any weaver - fine corduroy such as jeans are made of is pretty much a mill fabric.

 

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Sally Orgren's picture
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Cord

Dear Krugger100,

I have to say I have not woven anything that comes close to your commercial sample. However, I am hoping to connect you to a fellow weaver who has gone further down this path than a lot of us.

Kay Faulkner is the only person I know who has worked in smaller yarns on handlooms in a similar technique (velvet). She would definitely be the one to contact. There might be one other person who has explored this in depth, and if so, I hope someone else will chime in with their name!

I checked some of my photos from Kay's Complex Weaver's seminar last summer, and she worked in 10/2 and 20/2 cotton ground.

For the "velvet" areas of weft, on one sample she specifies "12 wires per 2 cm" (therefore approximately 18 ppcm ground). She used a special tool to keep the pile of the velvet areas consistent, and mentioned that when cutting, every time she risked ruining the cloth if she cut incorrectly. (It happened more than once.)

I believe this is a very laborious process at the size she was using, (and she was only making small samples), so to drop down to the smaller threads needed to produce a supple cloth at the yardage needed for jeans would be *really* challenging. If you are willing to undertake the challenge, my next thought would be to consider an end-use garment that would take a bit less wear in key spots, like a corduroy jacket perhaps?

I noticed Kay used different structures to help hold in these pile areas (it is not plain weave), and she mentions she "handwashes vigorously, drip dry, press on a padded board". So the kind of frequent washing required by a garment like jeans might mean the final fabric won't last very long.

Keep us posted if you decide to try this! I am one of those weavers who likes to try the path less traveled, even if there might be some orange cones along the way. That's why I took Kay's seminar in the first place-and I highly recommend it if you get the opportunity. (FYI, Complex Weavers is the go-to place when you are considering more complex types of weaving.)

Ultimately, it's going to come down to your time, and if you are willing to invest a lot of it to figure out if you can make this work to your satisfaction or not. Good question, just not the simple answer you were seeking, sorry!

Sally

 

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Bonnie Inouye's picture
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velveteen

In 1999, I took a seminar at the Ontario Handweavers conference on the topic of Velveteen. True velvet is a warp pile structure and several weavers have studied it intensively and teach it. Barbara Setsu Pickett gives a wonderful seminar on handwoven velvet and has written articles- I remember one in Weaver's magazine. She gave the keynote speech for CW Seminars conference in 1996 on handwoven velvet in Italy and in Japan and her own work.

The woman in Ontario (I think her name is Diane, and I need to look it up somehow) said that velveteen is weft pile. She had some lovely samples and finished outer garments made in various yarns, mainly cotton or wool. Her structure was overshot and she cut the weft floats. She created or selected overshot drafts that included rather long areas of "half-tone" to hold the yarns in place, and put all the weft floats on the top surface. With 4 shafts, you can do this with a 1/3 tie-up. For the pattern weft, she used a bundle of thinner yarns together. This method can give you a decorative pile that is durable enough for a vest or a jacket, but the raised pile areas cannot be as close together as those in your photo. They need more space between the cut floats to be durable.

Cutting floats is very tedious work.

Bonnie Inouye

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kruegger100's picture
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Do you have any

Do you have any velvet/velveteen loom weaving setups pictures that you can share or post here? Thanks

 

 

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Bonnie Inouye's picture
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velveteen on 4-shaft floor loom

Velvet requires a special loom modification which is quite tricky to make.
But velveteen is something you can do on a regular 4-shaft floor loom with no special modifications at all.
Have you woven any overshot?  If not, do you have some books that include this?
Weaving velveteen on your loom will be just as easy as weaving overshot on your loom. There are a lot of overshot drafts available and you can also make your own, but not all of them will be appropriate for making a weft pile cloth. Still plenty of choice.
Cutting the pile is not all that difficult but it is tedious. A helpful tool is surgical scissors. Even so, my hands got tired and I had to take breaks.
Velveteen is not a good method for weaving a pile rug. (Sara sent photos of pile rug methods with good comments.) Velveteen is used for cloth with decorative pile on one surface and you can choose to cut some areas and leave others as floats if you like. You could also weave a lot of other types of cloth on the same warp because there are so many variations for overshot treadlings. If you weave fabric for a jacket, you could weave a flat cloth for the collar and cuffs on the same warp.

I need to figure out how to include a draft here, having saved one as a jpeg image.

Bonnie

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Bonnie Inouye's picture
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draft

I tried but the draft did not come through. So I posted it on Flickr. I hope this will help you.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bonnieinouy...

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OmaGerda's picture
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Corduroy

I am looking for weaving draft for 4-8 shafts for corduroy.Wich tools I need further to cut the loops?

 

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OmaGerda's picture
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Corduroy

I am looking for weaving draft for 4-8 shafts for corduroy.Wich tools I need further to cut the loops?

 

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On handweaving.net you can

On handweaving.net you can not only find the book by Murphy (link above), but also the Collingwood rug books. Collingwood describes the procedure in detail, but gives qualities only for rugs. Here is the link to his "biggest" - The techniques of rug weaving

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Guiding Myth's picture
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A few years ago I sampled

A few years ago I sampled corduroy with 2/28 wool based on an article in an old Weavers Magazine (the article was based on Peter Collingwood's rug book).  After wet finishing it made a lovely flexible fabric.  There was about the same amount of drape as a heavy cotton corduroy but more flexible - much nicer really.  Because it was wool there is little dange of pile loss.  A bit heavy for a skirt or pants but it would make a wonderful jacket - actually the article in Weavers magazine was about making jackets.  I thought it would be fun to make a faux fur stole - 1950's style - but I haven't done it yet.

I didn't find the pile cutting that bad - and I may have used a dowel or knitting needle to lenthen the floats. 

I think the Weavers article was made with Jagerspun 18/2 wool  and also their wool/silk blend.  So my sample was a bit finer.

Take a look at corduroy drafts and experiment.

Best wishes, Stephanie S

 

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Guiding Myth's picture
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On second thought - cutting

On second thought - cutting the pile may have been tedious but because I expected it to be - it was easier than I expected.  I sampled several kinds of sissors and I think I used a spring action one.

Stephanie S

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ReedGuy's picture
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"Warp and Weft" have 3 pages

"Warp and Weft" have 3 pages of three techniques along with drafts for corduroy. But, I couldn't tell you how well it would hold up for garments. I'm a newbie to weaving. One technique sounds like Bonnie's explanation.

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