I have a rigid heddle loom (1 heddle) that I use to demonstrate at shows. I really like being able to do demos, and the RH loom is SO portable it's great for that. But, since I usually work with finer yarns than work well on a 12 dpi heddle, I'm thinking I might like a SMALL 4H table loom - 10-12" weaving width is plenty. In an ideal world, it'd fold for ease of moving.
Does such an animal exist? If so, who makes them?
Even more importantly, does anyone have one for sale? Because I do have a workable alternative in my RH, I'm willing to wait for the right loom at the right price, but hey, it can't hurt to ask. :-)
Hi Peg.Cherre. I'm also in the market for a table loom and have been doing a lot of research. If you do a search here for Table loom there was a very helpful thread on this topic which discussed many different choices.
Is the thread you mention in the For Sale or Trade forum? I didn't find it when I just searched. There are so many wonderful forums, I hate to search through all of them to find the helpful thread you mention.
Thanks for providing more details!
Here's the thread. I first discovered it via a google search. But if you do a regular search on all the boards I'm sure it would also come up.
http://weavolution.com/forum/weaving/tab...
Have you considered adding a second RH to your loom? Since you have a 12 dent RH if you add another 12 dent RH you can go up to 24 epi. You don't even need a second castle, I just rubber band the two RH together after they are threaded and they move as one unit.
A LeClerc Dorothy is 15" wide, and the 4-shaft version folds somewhat flat with a warp on for travel. You can find them used, usually in the $50-150 range (give or take, depending on condition.)
A Structo 240 (8" wide metal loom) is also very small and portable, but they stopped making them years ago, and this loom has a "collectors cache" among some weavers because of their small size and "cute" factor. So the prices they are offered for can be a bit high. I saw one at Maryland Sheep & Wool in May for $125 (which is average.) They come in both 4 and 8 shaft. This loom does not fold, but easily fits in a large plastic tub, along with a bunch of other junk if you are hauling stuff to a demo.
I think these two are among the lightest in weight (for shaft looms, at a smaller weaving width) I have experienced.
Reeds: The 240 comes with a 15 dent (great for fine threads). A used Dorothy will typically come with a 12 or 15 dent, depending on the vintage. New reeds can be purchased for the Dorothy if you need finer.
I typically fit the Structo 240 + shuttles and tools, an Ashford Inklette, and my drop spinning into one plastic tub (plus lunch, beverages, and other junk like guild brochures, etc.). In case of rain, it's nice to have a dry place everything can go and be protected from the weather when you trudge back to the car, which might be a mile away at the edge of the grassy parking area!
And don't be afraid to wait for the right loom at the right price. Some of my favorite demo looms have come to me for free, because folks know I love weaving and see me out there demonstrating. They want to see their much-beloved loom continue on in another life with a beautiful warp to be shared with others. I do my best to honor that wish.
Sally
P.S. I give two thumbs up to Karren B's idea for the RH as you wait for more folks to chime in on the subject, and/or the perfect demo loom comes along...
Karen & Sally -
So if I buy a second 12 dent heddle, am I limited to either 12 epi or 24 epi? That is, can I do 18 epi (a common sett for me) with 2 rigid heddles?
Karen - I know you have a LeClerc RH, as do I. I've seriously considered adding another castle so I can do 4H weaving, but I'm a bit worried about the distance from the existing castle to the back beam. It's pretty short. If I put in another castle, and leave myself enough room to actually move the heddle up & down independent of the first one, I fear I'll have that second castle practically on top of the back beam. No????
Thanks for your input!
You might consider The Quad loom, which I designed to hold up to four rigid heddles at once.
We introduced this new loom at the Association of Northwest Weavers'
Guilds conference earlier this month and the response was very positive.
Using four 10-dent heddles allows you to weave many of the structures
possible on a 4-shaft loom without using pick-up sticks. Plus, with certain threadings, you can even
weave 5-shaft patterns. Also, you can warp it with up to 40 ends per inch. I have two projects listed on this site that show (though not very well) 5-shaft weaves being woven on a Quad set up with four heddles. I'm new to social networking technology, so I'm not sure you can access those projects: if not, I can send photos. The Quad has a 16" weaving width (we can make a custom model with a 24" weaving width) and a heddle holder that pivots down--even when the loom is warped--to make transporting it easier. The Quad does not fold, but, when disassembled (which is easy to do), makes a fairly compact package. The loom's website is still a work in progress, but it does contain a bit more information.
http://www.shorepinestudios.com/quadloom
Just something to think about. . . .
Thanks for the link, Looming! While I don't think I'll be buying a quad, the photograph of your loom gave me a big 'duh' moment. I think I can very easily modify my LeClerc to accommodate 2 heddles without adding an extra castle by installing a few pegs on the back of the existing castle. Makes sense to me...I'll have to give it some more thought to make sure I can do it without weakening the structure of the castle, but I think I can. In any case, I'm going to order a 2nd 12 dent heddle, so at the very least I can work with the two of them together, as Karen suggests.
Thanks for the great ideas, guys!
Another thing to consider to add extra shafts is a string doupe shaft. Very easy to make (after the 1st time). Laverne of Bacstrap fame has a nice thread about how to use them. All you need is a stick and string. You can make as many as you need for your structure you just need to wrap your head around treading AND lifting the string doupe.
Oooo, I think you are on to something with the pegs. As long as your castle is sturdy and your heddle has the extended top bar it should work. And you won't be restricted to just 12 dpi and 24 dpi warps with two heddles; you can selectively skip slots and holes across the warp to achieve different setts. Also, because of the wonderful properties of rigid heddle looms, you can weave some 3-shaft patterns with two heddles.
Good luck!
Two 12 dent RH will give an epi of 24, two 10's will give 20epi (as close to 18 as I can get). I have not tried irregular denting on two RH.
I have my second castle 3/4" behind the normal one and still have 5 1/4" behind the 2nd castle to the back beam. The shed opens just fine. Leclerc put the second castle in front and I didn't like that because it reduced my working space and it felt like I had to advance the warp every inch or so. I moved mine to behind.
The 1st RH gives you two sheds, equivalent of 2H, then each additional RH adds one more shed =1 H, so 3 RH = 4H.
I've spoken with my brother-in-law, and changed my modification plan. I'm going to have my son make 3 small blocks out of ash, then glue them to the back of my castle in exactly opposite the 'blocks' (that is, just above and below the notches) on the front of the castle. No worries about splitting or weakening the wood by drilling holes in the castle. It'll work just swell for the second heddle, I'm sure.
Thanks for all your suggestions, advice, and information.
Peg
Hi Peg,
I often weave with multiple rigid heddles, and I haven't done any modifications at all to the original form of my RH looms. Instead of using the castle to hold the heddles in the "up" or "down" positions, I simply hold them with my hands. That's not practical if you have a wide weaving width -- but on 24" and narrower, it works.
My looms are Bekas, which have a very simple little castle block. A more complicated block might get in the way of moving the heddles around by hand -- but if you think about holding the heddles in your hand to open the shed, and you hold that thought while you look at the loom, it almost always is workable!
With regard to warp density, it's very easy to thread a pair of heddles to give you 50%, 100%, 150%, or 200% of their "native" epi. The threading paths are regular enough so they (usually) don't leave the RH equivalent of reed marks in the cloth.
If you want more threading information, I think I have a few diagrams around here that I made a while back....
Ruth
P.S. - I tried the Quad loom at ANWG, and it's very smooth and easy to use. It gives a good, positive shed, and with a "doup" set up behind the shafts, it does let you weave 5-shaft structures (which has got me dreaming of satins!). I live on a different continent than "Looming" does, or I'd be sorely tempted....
If you do want a shaft-and-lever table loom, though (I just noticed that I distracted myself in my last message, thinking about rigid heddles and threadings and satin dreams and all that!), a few years back the Mountain Loom Company made a cute little loom called the "Aeroknot". It was an 8-shaft folding loom with a narrow weaving width (just 8 inches, I think). It was intended to be small enough to travel as carry-on luggage on an airplane (hence the name). It was kind of expensive at the time, even more expensive than their larger table looms -- but it was popular enough that it seems that those looms should show up in the "used" listings from time to time.
Mountain Looms had a really good reputation. I yearned after the Aeroknot for quite some time -- though their other looms tempted me, too! Beautiful things, made of rock maple. (I finally ended up with an 8-shaft Louet Kombo, purchased from a friend. It's a dandy loom, too!).
But if you're thinking of a small table loom with levers -- the Aeroknot was one. Another in the same class: the Leclerc Voyageur, which folds into a tiny package and weaves a narrow cloth. They still make them, with 4, 8, or 12 shafts -- so if you wanted to demonstrate more complex weaves, you could. ...Both of those would be a lot more expensive than the options Sally mentioned; but it's always nice to look at the full array, when you're looking. ;-)
Ruth(who rarely buys at the top of the scale, but thoroughly enjoys looking there!)
Rigid heddles are not inexpensive.
I'm pondering why anyone would work with 4 of the same size other than to demonstrate that it can be done.
There are tiny table looms out there, the Structos, the Voyageurs, the Aeronot, we make a little table loom in 10" width with 8 shaft frames that are easily removable to accommodate only the ones you need for your project. Saving up for a table loom designed to make the fabric you desire really makes a lot of sense.
A carpenter doesn't use a monkey wrench for a hammer, though in a pinch it can be used to pound in a nail or two. Weaving is similar - you get better results with fewer frustrations using a tool intended for the use you have in mind.
Would you be interested in a Louet Jane? I would be willing to sell mine for $500 as soon as my Schacht Wolf Pup arrives next Wednesday. I could send you pictures. Where do you live? I would be willing to ship her, she only weighs 17 lbs. Lovely, fun loom. I have a tiny apt. and can only have one at a time!
Cynthia
Sara, I don't know how your Dutch Master looms managed to escape my attention up until now, but they sure did! That looks like a nice little loom (at an excellent price!). It looks like it would be a good loom for demonstrations, too, because the threading would be clearly visible, even to non-weaving eyes, and it would be perfectly obvious which shafts were being lifted at any given time.
Nice loom!
Ruth
I have drooled over the Jane, cwinters11, but I'm not willing/able to spend $500 now. I'm sure it's a WONDERFUL loom, but out of my current price range.
Sara - I'd never heard of your Dutch Masters loom, either, and it looks really interesting! And a great price for a brand new loom. I'd love to try one -- know anyone in western New York State who owns one?
I see from your post that you have what I have. I bought it a few months back but it's still in the box while I get my feet wet on a Dorothy. How do you like it? Anything I should know? Do you have treadles? I 've heard their praises sung but I'd like to hear from someone such as yourself with first hand knowledge. Thanks. Fredi
